Kate Leaf spent more than 10 years as an educator and made the switch into non profit communications and community outreach. Listen in as we talk about her transition and how she continues to fulfill her love for the classroom by teaching ESL for adults part time.
Listen to the episode in the podcast player below, or find it on Apple Podcast or Spotify.
Mentioned in the episode:
- Use code “TCC” to get 50% off of everything at Aspireship
- Our career path quiz at www.teachercareercoach.com/quiz
- Explore the course that has helped thousands of teachers successfully transition out of the classroom and into new careers: The Teacher Career Coach Course (If you are a Teacher Career Coach Course member, you can also sign up for our one-on-one Career Clarity calls.)
Elizabeth: Hi, welcome back to the Teacher Career Coach podcast. Today, we had such a great conversation getting to know Kate. Kate Leaf spent more than 10 years as an educator. Three years working in more informal teaching roles in outdoor education, and seven years working in the formal classroom teaching secondary level English and Social Studies. Despite her love for teaching, Kate found herself wanting to make a professional change when engaging students seemed to become harder and harder each year following the pandemic.
Kate now works for a non profit in communications and community outreach, and on top of that, she found a way to continue to fulfill that teacher part of herself that loves to facilitate learning by working in a part-time role as an ESL instructor for adults.
Please join us in welcoming Kate.
Kate: Hi, thanks so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.
Elizabeth: Thanks so much for your time. So we love to start these out, um, by learning a little bit about why you got into education, and a little bit about your journey and transition.
Kate: Yeah, absolutely. So I’m definitely one of those people that was pretty sure I would always be a teacher. My mom is a teacher. My grandma was a teacher and I used to like, you know, set up my dolls and teach to them, you know, so, um, but because I grew up with a mom who taught special ed at the secondary level, like I also was hyper aware of all the qualms with teaching.
Like I heard her bent. about X, Y, and Z behavioral issues, bureaucratic, like time sucks. Because of that, I trusted that it was going to be really hard and maybe not quite for me. I ended up taking on right after college a year of like working in outdoor education with like fifth and sixth graders.
And it was so fun and I totally fell in love with the craft of teaching. And so that had me decide to pursue a formal license. And then I ended up teaching middle and high schoolers. Um, I taught English and social studies. Most recently I was in a large public district teaching, high school social studies.
I did kind of play around. I worked in private schools and I also had the privilege of teaching internationally in Mexico, and loved it. That was a really amazing experience. So I ultimately spent eight years in the classroom, formally.
And in so many ways, teaching high school Social Studies was a dream job.
I like just, I love working with young people. Social Studies is such a subject that is. So conducive to talking about like young people’s development as they think about their opinions on societal issues and challenges and how they tie to history in the future. And it just is so fun. I loved it. but as I know, probably a lot of people listening have experienced, um, it really has changed.
Like it has felt very different, year after year as we like move farther from the pandemic. And I don’t like have all the answers for why, but I do feel like definitely as youth are experiencing this mental health crisis and social media has kind of warped young people’s brains. It just was getting increasingly hard to engage my high school students in a way where it didn’t used to be, and I really missed it.
And I felt like I was spending so much time trying to get them to just do the work. Like it was like the worst group project ever where I was like, okay, like, so no one’s done the work. Okay. So here we are. Um, and it just didn’t feel like it was going to get better at least anytime soon. So I made the decision to try something new and started listening to the podcast and ultimately made the career pivot. Left the classroom at the end of the 2023 school year and have been out over a year now.
Elizabeth: Thank you for sharing that. And before we move on, because I’m excited to hear about the podcast that you were listening to and the Teacher Career Coach Course. Um, but you mentioned that you taught international internationally in Mexico, and I know, a couple of teachers in the community are curious, you know, they’ve taught in the US only and or maybe. Before leaving the classroom, they’re thinking they might look into teaching internationally. So can you just expand a little bit about that experience,
Kate: Yeah, absolutely. I technically taught. In two different countries before I got my formal license. I did one year in Korea as a teaching assistant. And that also sort of helped me be like, I love this. Like I want to pursue a license. and it also gave me like a peek into how awesome international schools are.
They’re a really, really nice teaching environment because typically the kids are pretty. motivated. You’re working with students from all over. You’re working with teachers from all over. It’s just, it’s very cool.
And so a few years into my career working in Colorado, I, um, was like, I’m ready for a change and applied to work for a school in Mexico, um, in a pretty big city. Got the job. I truly, I think it ended up being the best teaching job that I’ve had, The students were super motivated. They’re bilingual. So I was teaching in English. At the time I taught sixth grade language arts in English. Fun kids, you know, this is pre pandemic.
Technically, that year is when the pandemic started. So I finished out the year, virtual teaching in Mexico, like the rest of the world did, but it was also like, a very fun, like, community oriented year just because many times other teachers who are not from the country, so Mexico in this case, are absolutely looking for friends.
So it was like very easy to, to make friends and explore the country. And there, we had a lot of time off, um, which is the best. Anyway, I really recommend it. If teachers are looking for a change and have. the ability to move internationally, like mostly everyone I’ve talked to who like, have done the circuit, like they’ve been in many different countries, just have rave reviews of the schools they’ve been at.
Elizabeth:
And now you’re an outreach and communications manager and an ESL teacher. So congratulations. That’s awesome. We’d love to hear. How did you do it?
Kate: Yeah. So I think my answer is pretty similar to like what a lot of teachers have said. I just listened to your episode, Elizabeth, and, um, I was like, Oh my gosh, we have so many parallels,
When there were days that were tough and like, it just, this does not feel like what it should feel like.
I’m really down about this job. I’m stressed. students are facing these immense challenges that I can’t support them with. I would listen to. The TCC podcast, to basically like, I think initially it was for solidarity. Like I, I’m not alone at all in this. Like this is, and it’s not just my district either, or my school.
This is what’s happening to many, many teachers across the country. And then like, it just made it seem doable. All of these different teachers from all different places, from, you know, teaching many different subjects and grade levels. Able to secure other jobs and then like the jobs, like it just like it was really inspiring and helped me.
I joked that that 1st year when I was considering leaving was like the me working to answer the question. Like, what are other jobs? Because like, you kind of don’t know if you’ve always wanted to be a teacher. It’s so siloed and different than other roles. that really helped me kind of narrow down what I might be interested in.
and then when I like made the decision, like I’m going to leave at the end of the school year, I then enrolled in the course and started doing like the concrete steps of okay, like LinkedIn, that’s a thing that I need to make and network. I found all of the suggestions around networking super useful in the course.
and I actually enjoyed the networking aspect a lot more than I thought I would. Turns out people, like, want to help you. Um, and you’re generally, like, pretty impressed that you’re making such a big pivot. and then I definitely utilized how to speak to my skills, transferable skills. Like, really taking away Daphne’s tough reality, tough love that it’s not the hiring manager’s job to see how you’re a good fit. Like you have to explain it. So I did a lot of practice with that it took a long time, but I did get another role. Yeah.
Elizabeth: I remember at the beginning of my search, building a LinkedIn, because someone that I was talking to working at an ed tech company said, Hey, you know, make sure your LinkedIn is up to date. And I said, “What?” So I’m so glad to hear everything from the course that was, helpful And especially with that piece in transferring and translating the skills to the business and corporate world.
That’s so important. Would you be able to tell us a little bit about what a communications and outreach manager does?
Kate: Yeah,
definitely.
So, um, I was super interested in either learning or development or communications. I did teach English for a long time, ended up loving social studies for teaching more, but like, as a student myself, English was my jam. I really love to write and edit. And so I was like, okay, it seems like that’s what you do. And communications, it’s a lot of writing and editing.
And it felt like I was getting more bites in communications and learning and development. Um, maybe my theory is there’s enough teachers trying to transition that. It is pretty. Saturated the market in L and D right now. I don’t know if that’s actually true, but it didn’t work out for me.
So I then really pursued communications roles. I connected with she’s now my manager, my supervisor. Um, she’s awesome. In the interview process. And we definitely like just clicked and I gave her a writing sample and. She was like, yeah, this is great. I think you’d be a really good fit. And I was actually originally hired as a specialist.
So same title of communications and outreach specialist, but got promoted after like only like three months. It was pretty quick to a manager role, which is super cool. and so I do a ton of writing and editing. I write blogs and newsletters and content for it’s a giant nonprofit that I’m at, that supports Coloradans with, like, seeking direct services and resources.
so most of the staff are actually very much working on the front lines of supporting people in the state. And then my team is helping get the word out about what we’re doing. So there’s actually a ton of content that we are working on all of the time. and then the other half of that role is outreach, which is essentially, like, our efforts to get out into the community and share about what the nonprofit does, particularly for demographics in our state, who.
Aren’t necessarily aware that these, like, supports and services are available. that means, like, being present at events like pride and just like, chatting with people in the community. it’s really busy this time of year because that’s when events happen is the warm seasons. so it’s a big job.
Um, so. I work a lot, especially since I got promoted, but, um, it’s been really, really cool. Like it’s, as someone who has always loved to write, it’s been super cool to be able to like grow in a new way.
Elizabeth: I mean, it’s just great to see teachers can still find different careers and still really hone in on their passions
Kate: Yeah. And I, like, I would recommend, if there’s anyone with a similar kind of like, Do I want to keep teaching? could I see myself writing? Like, open yourself up to communications. I do think it’s less competitive ultimately. And like, I, that’s not like fact checked, but it’s definitely based on my experience.
So
Elizabeth: And, and you mentioned a little bit about the interview process, about meeting with the manager, providing a writing sample. So we’d love to hear a little bit about what that was like.
Kate: I ultimately applied to 96 jobs. Like I did all the tracking, and I formally applied to 96 jobs in this career pivot. And the job that I got, I technically never applied for. So I know that’s like, maybe like very annoying to hear, but basically I had applied for a training role, like a learning and development role at this nonprofit.
And I had a screening with the recruiter and upon, like, speaking with me, she was clearly a great recruiter and like, really listened to what I was saying. And reading my resume, she was like, “Hey, I actually think there’s a different role that you would be a really great fit for right now. And she explained what the specialist role was.
And I was like, Oh, yeah, that does sound great. Like, can you send me the link to apply? And she’s like, it’s fine. I’ll just like, since we already did a screening, I’ll just, send your resume over to the hiring manager. Who’s now my supervisor? And then she reached out for an interview.
So, we had our initial interview. It was probably about an hour. You can tell when it’s like going well, it was like a really nice conversation. Um, we definitely connected well. And then she asked for a writing sample. Like she gave me a prompt and all of that. That’s similar to the work that I would be doing. I maybe had like a week to get it done.
I sent it to her and then like a couple weeks after that. She reached out and said, I’d love to hire you. It was a really great feeling.
Elizabeth: Thank you for also on top of this job, you teach ESL at night, correct? So what led you to apply for this position?
Kate: I think I like essentially negotiated with myself originally upon, like, you know, should I stay or should I go, um, with teaching? I, um. I didn’t really want to go, I love to teach and I wished that the classroom felt like it used to feel like, and so when I was originally weighing my decision, I was thinking about, like, well, there must be ways to keep teaching, in a volunteer capacity and I can, like, keep that part of myself alive.
and while, like, I really dislike the use of the word calling to describe how teachers feel about teaching, just because I think it, it’s like in lieu of adequate pay and benefits, which is not okay from society. I do think that there are many teachers like myself who, like, really do have a deep sense of fulfillment from the role of teaching.
I knew I wanted to keep doing it. And so as soon as I quit, I, started looking in my area for volunteer opportunities and I knew it would be on a super part time basis. cause I was looking for a full time job and I found a really great organization, and they do a ton of ESL and GED classes for free. and they pay their teachers. It wasn’t even like a volunteer opportunity in the end. so I reached out to the woman who runs the ESL and was like, Hey, I’m super interested. Do you have any roles? And, she was looking for someone, like, at the start of the 2nd semester.
So last January. And so, yeah, I, I got that job too. And it’s on a school schedule. So from January through May, I was teaching Mondays and Wednesdays, at an adult ESL class, and it was so fun. I hope to keep doing it. Although it makes me like really busy, obviously.
Elizabeth: can you tell us a bit about, what it’s like teaching adults, um, and how that differs from your, your middle and high school experience, have you had to change anything about your teaching style?
Kate: One thing I noticed right away is like, I used a ton of humor in the classroom with high schoolers. It was super fun, but also kind of exhausting. It felt like, as. The, like, social media addiction became more and more of a problem every class every day with high schoolers. I had to become like more and more of a performer to try to like keep attention. and with teaching adults who many of them like were super, super newcomers, like no English, like humor is not really going to work in the same, like witty way that I was doing. It’s like one of the last things that comes with learning a language.
So I definitely like dialed down the way I was using language. You’re just like simplifying obviously the way you speak, but in general, I think it was, it’s so much easier, like, because you’re, you’re working with the very basic reality that your learners are choosing to be there. and want to do the work and just that, like that, like one simple sentence makes a world of difference.
You are not trying to convince students to do the work and like reason with them on why they want to do the work when they don’t want to do the work. The adult learners are many times like overcoming large obstacles, like they have to figure out childcare. They have to ride the bus like a long distance. There’s a lot of things that they are putting into place to be in class.
And then if they are there, they are doing everything they can to absorb the material. They’re super, super motivated learners. and many of them are looking for some sense of community because often they’re new, um, to the city. And so they’re like excited to be around other people who are in a super similar boat, new to the city, wanting to learn English, not having that skill yet and motivated to do it.
So it’s incredible. It’s like such a fun classroom. And something like, Hey, you’re going to do workbook page 38. Their diligence is incredible. Like you, like it would require constant classroom management to get that like minimal level of direction to work with a high school classroom.
and they’re just like on it. Like I would be bored sometimes. I’d be like, wait, no one’s going to like talk to me about gossip right now. Um, and then they’re also like, they also want the fun games and stuff. So I remember a day that we were like working on commands, like stop, don’t stop. How we do that in English.
And I put on, Cotton Eyed Joe, like, and which has the lyrics like up on the projector. And it was so cute. Like all these adults ranging in age from like 25 to 65. You know, we’re eager to stand up and do the like two hops this time. And like they were giggling and it was just like so cute and fun. And yeah, it’s really, really wonderful.
And so for teachers who would like to get into that, does it require, I’m sure it’s different everywhere, but did you have to have a credential or certificate, or are they just looking for English speakers?That’s a good question. it seemed like, so for this specific program, which is like a grant through a school district that’s partnered with the like non profit that runs all of these different classes statewide. It seemed like the nine ESL teachers within this one niche ESL program were all current teachers or former teachers, like, very qualified, licensed, but I actually don’t think that that is a requirement.
and there was definitely no requirement to have like TESOL or anything.
Elizabeth: I think I would recommend just like look up ESL classes or GED classes. That’s the other really common one. in your area, see what programs and organizations offer them and then like sort of backwards work from there. the one that I went through did not have jobs posted and I did have to reach out directly, but she got back to me super quick.
Kate: But I get the sense that like, because they’re not full time roles, you’re like, they need people who are either not working, And have the ability to not work, or are working and are willing to take on additional work to do it. And I think essentially like they’re always looking.
Elizabeth: That makes sense. Yeah. Based on these two experiences with your, nonprofit and being an ESL teacher and your transition, do you have any little tidbits? just advice to those looking to leave
Kate: I think first I would say, like, I would echo Daphne’s old advice, which is like, if you feel like you’re just seeking a change, try a different school, see if international teaching is for you, try a different district, so many teachers really, really love to teach, and we so desperately need good teachers.
be sure that leaving is the right thing. And then once you reach the decision, like, yes, it’s the right thing for me, I would really, really, emphasize the importance of learning about other roles, getting that career clarity.
I found the podcast incredibly helpful to do that. and then once I kind of narrowed in on the two industries I was interested in, I really enjoyed the like act of like setting up calls with people in roles that I’m interested in. And then like, just like, you know, Essentially interviewing them, like tell me all the things and that helped me like to with narrowing in what I wanted and I did a lot of that my last semester of teaching.
So I was still employed and I was just like, it was like a hobby. Like, I’d be like, oh, I’d like a 4 o’clock call today with like, someone from this organization. I think it also helped give me some confidence that it was going to work out. you know, as that last day of pay got closer and closer and closer.
So, I think those are like my biggest pieces of advice.
Elizabeth: Those are great. Thank you. And based on one of the last things you said, it just reminded me, um, how did you manage your time I know you mentioned you applied to 96 jobs. So, you know, while you were still teaching and then applying, how did you manage that to where you weren’t getting burnt out over the job search itself?
Kate: I actually didn’t apply while I was teaching. I was just doing, calls. Like I was just networking and like, I was recording what I was learning and I was, basically ensuring that I would remember these calls, But I, I had decided based on, I think a lot of what, like, other teachers have said who have left. I’m not going to do it well, until I have the time. And I was okay with subbing, so I was paid through, like, the end of July that, like, last summer.
I just subbed at my old school, which made it really mellow. Like I already knew all the students, not all of them, but enough of them to make subbing like, fun, you know. And I ultimately got the job in like late October and started in November. So it was not as long as I thought it might be. I think if, if you can like, don’t try to do it all.
I would have been a really, I think, unhappy person that last semester if I was, cause I felt like the job hunt was a full time job. So it would have been really, really hard to do it with the minimal energy I had following a full day of teaching.
Elizabeth: Absolutely. I like that you brought up subbing because that is a great option. You know, you can do it on your time, your schedule say yes or no to the job to
Kate: Yeah, you can see like which teacher’s out and you’re like, Oh, I would love to sub for them. That’d be amazing. yeah, I would also joke with my former students who would be in these random classes I was subbing. They’d like roast me cause they’re high schoolers. They’d be like, miss, you don’t have a job yet.
And I was like really good motivation.
Elizabeth: They’re truth tellers.
Kate:
Elizabeth: can you tell us a little bit about your work life balance, um, now that you’ve transitioned and you work outside of traditional K 12?
Kate: Yeah. Um, I actually just switched to four tens like three weeks ago with my communications job. and I’m still like figuring out how that feels. I love having Fridays off. But 10 hours is a long time to be super focused. it’s hard to like do that much else on those four days.
I was not working that schedule when I was teaching ESL. I think it would have been impossible to do that. Because those classes are two and a half hours in the evenings.
My work life balance was pretty heavy on the work. It was, it was a lot of work. I was working like, 45 to 50 hours a week. but it like felt so worth it.
Cause I was loving the ESL so much. Now not having any ESL over the summer while like the four tens are super busy, it’s still not nearly as exhausting where you have to be so on as teaching and like, I can, go out on a break and actually go for a walk with my dog. Like, that ability is so nice.
And my workplace is assuming that people working remotely are like, doing things like that. Um, as long as they’re getting their work done, I’ll also say, and I think I mentioned this earlier, within this communications and outreach role, the six months in Colorado between April and October where it’s warm, there’s just so much outreach work that it’s really quite busy at work right now.
and then it’s slower in the like winter months. So I would say like my work life balance is much better than it was when I was teaching high school and my energy level is much higher, but I’m. Definitely working.
Elizabeth: Well, that’s great to hear. Like, I appreciate all the honesty and, you know, it kind of, it does make sense that they would want to have all these outreach activities in the summer with the beautiful weather and kind of is your busy season and then might slow down. And we’d like to end it by asking you, what did you learn about yourself during this process?
Kate: it’s funny. I used to like, think about this question cause I would listen to this podcast so much and I’d be like, what will my answer be? Um, I think I have two. One is definitely that, teaching while it is an identity, it really isn’t my only identity. Like I still feel super fulfilled and accomplished and like I can do other stuff and feel a lot of. self confidence and making a difference in a totally different type of work. and that’s really nice.
I think the other thing that I learned is that because I am someone that like really does love to teach and to facilitate learning and wanted to keep that going is that teaching is like so much more than working in the K through 12 system.
I don’t even just mean because I teach ESL, I think that there are so many ways to keep fulfilling that part of myself that loves to teach, including in roles where the title has nothing to do with teaching or learning.
I think that it is such a specialized skillset that many people do not have. And teachers like very much intrinsically have, And that your workplace is going to love you for being able to so naturally manage and supervise and provide feedback and support people in meeting their goals and structure like multi faceted projects into more chunkable pieces and distill complex content into more digestible chunks of like learning or writing for audiences to better understand.
All of those are actually very challenging skills that teachers are so used to doing. if you’re like afraid of what you’ll feel like without teaching, I bet you’re going to find a way to fulfill that in any role because workplaces like love that skill set is what I’ve realized.
Elizabeth: That’s such a good point about. You know, teaching is everywhere and ingrained in everything. So there’s a way to find that.
Kate: Yeah.
Elizabeth: Kate, thank you so much for your time today. This was so nice getting to know you and can’t wait to see and follow your journey.
Kate: Yeah. Thank you so much. And if you’re listening, um, good luck to you.
