In this episode of the Teacher Career Coach Podcast, former high school science teacher Claire shares her inspiring transition from 8 years in the classroom to a fulfilling career as a program manager.
She opens up about:
- The burnout from endless lesson planning, lab prep, and new curriculum development that led her to leave without a full-time job lined up.
- How part-time summer work as a master teacher (training adult educators) provided valuable upskilling and a bridge during her search.
- Accidentally discovering program management through an “education manager” role, growing over 9 years with promotions, and now thriving in a new position at an engineering college designing programs for professionals.
Claire dives into:
- Day-to-day realities of program/project management.
- Transferable teacher skills like organization, time management, communication, and stakeholder coordination.
- Practical job search tips (e.g., subscribing to newsletters, following organizations on LinkedIn, exploring local universities and associations).
- Insights on work-life balance.
- Overcoming burnout in any career by focusing on what you can control, using therapy, and being patient through transitions.
If you’re feeling burnt out or curious about program management roles, this episode is packed with relatable advice and encouragement!
Listen to the episode in the podcast player below, or find it on Apple Podcast or Spotify.
Transcript:
Elizabeth: welcome back everyone. I’m Elizabeth and we are super excited to have Claire with us today and Claire was in education and she’s a program manager, and we’re very excited to hear your story today. Thanks, Claire.
Claire: hi Elizabeth. Thanks for having me. I’m looking forward to being on the podcast.
Elizabeth: we’re excited to have you and we love to dive in and hear about your experience as a teacher, what got you into education in the first place.
Claire: Sure. So I think I have, a unique career path, both coming into the teaching profession and then, since I’ve been out of the teaching profession, my bachelor’s degree was actually in biomedical sciences. So when I was going to college and considering like career paths, I was kind of torn between the healthcare field and education.
education’s been always been something I’ve been, um, interested in, from like this, the point of addressing social inequities. But I also really just had a, um, passion and enjoyed science and, um, like mostly biology and anatomy and things like that. So when I was in school, I really gravitated towards the science side of things.
But at the end of my, four years, I decided that I wasn’t necessarily ready to go on to more an advanced degree or more schooling for healthcare. And so I pivoted and wanted to do something using that science content, but then also getting into the education field. So I actually went through an alternative certification program, kind of similar to Teach for America, and it was based in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
So through that, that’s kind of how I got into the classroom. And I ended up teaching high school science for eight years. And I had great, really opportunities for teaching a lot of different subjects. I really enjoyed it. the, content and the teaching of students was something that I really enjoyed just breaking down those concepts and kind of the curriculum planning and really getting to see the growth of students throughout the years and throughout the, the pro the classes. But, I was just getting kind of burnt out on the day-to-day grind of teaching.
As many people do and you know, there’s nights and weekends where you’re. Grading lesson planning. As a science teacher doing lab prep that was time sensitive for the labs that we were doing and things like that. So all of that was just getting, taking its toll. And I knew that I didn’t necessarily want to advance into being a school administrator, which is something that, you know, kind of a natural next step potentially for some teachers.
So I, um, made the decision at the end of my eighth year of teaching that I was not going to renew my teaching contract for the next year. And I had a few, like part-time jobs lined up over the summer, but I essentially ended the school year and didn’t yet know what I was going to do for a full-time job.
And about a month into summer and doing some part-time work, I. kind of had a panic moment and started really buckling down on the job search and ended up kind of landing into the role, the first role that I took outside of teaching, which was an education manager. And I found that because of the term education in it, and I thought, okay, this is going to be similar to.
Teaching in a way. But really it was more of a program management role and I ended up staying with that company for nine years and had the opportunity to grow and had a few promotions at that company, but all within the realm of program management, which is related to education. But, I would say not in the way that I was thinking of it at the time when I was coming out of the classroom.
Elizabeth: So you touched on so many points there, and I know we’re gonna dive into this a bit later around burnout, your job search. But this question I’ve been hearing from some teachers in the community, you have a specific point, you spoke about burnout, but was there a specific week or day during that school year where you just decided you were ready for the next chapter?
Claire: I don’t know. It’s hard to pinpoint a certain moment, I feel like every year throughout my teaching career of eight years, I was teaching like at least one new class. And, for anyone who’s had to do that, you know, it’s just a lot of work to take on and teach a new class. And maybe I was even teaching two new classes that last year, of teaching.
And so I just was, you know, that was taxing that, taking on that. And, it’s fun to do that, but it also requires more time to build up a new curriculum and everything. So I, I think that contributed to the feeling of, just ready, ready to be done. And, really the amount of time that’s put in for teachers outside of the normal school day.
I think some of my colleagues and I at the time calculated it and, if you calculate all the time, you’re putting in on summers, on weekends, and in evenings, et cetera, you’re working a full-time job just in nine months of the year if you’re on a traditional academic year.
So all of that was just getting to the point of. I’d like to see what else is out there.
Elizabeth: And then I think you mentioned that you had some part-time work lined up, and I do think that’s where. Important because, it is such a big jump and, to have that, I think it can help a lot too by giving you that extra job or experience to be able to go into something full-time. So how did
Claire: Yeah.
Elizabeth: those part-time jobs?
Claire: Yeah, that’s a great question. When I was teaching, I actually was teaching, um, some Project Lead the Way programs or courses. So, um, PLTW and people might be familiar with that company and that kind of curriculum development that they offer. I went through a few different trainings to become certified to teach some of the classes in their biomedical sciences track.
And then at some point, um, I saw an opportunity to apply to become what they call a master teacher. So that’s someone who actually leads the trainings for other teachers who are becoming certified. This was all pre COVID, mind you, and I think things have shifted like somewhat, since then, but. I’ve been out of that space for a while.
Anyway, so I applied to become a master teacher, and I believe that application process was, you know, submitting something. I think I had to do like a video recording of myself. And then I served as a master teacher for a few different, um, like two week courses. Both during a few summers when I was in teaching, and then that’s something I had lined up for that summer, that I had left the teaching career.
So I had those, positions or jobs lined up before I, uh, decided that I wasn’t going to go back to the classroom full-time. And so I did really enjoy those experiences. In the summer. They were two week stints and pretty much, Full day long trainings and it was coordinating all of the different labs that teachers would be running and then really going through the entire like year long curriculum with the teachers in two weeks.
And it was great to be able, I liked working with adult learners, um, and fellow teachers, and really digging into the, science content, which again, is kind of my background and what I just think is really interesting. So those were some really great. Professional, both like growth opportunities and development opportunities, and then just getting to use a different skillset of working with adult learners that, as a classroom teacher you might not be using on the day-to-day basis.
Elizabeth: So it sounds like too that upskilling gaining that, learning was helpful as well to make sure you could move into that position and then I would love to hear a little bit more about your job search and kind of dive into that. But before we do, can you tell us about your job now as a project manager?
Tell us program manager,
do and what it entails day to day.
Claire: Yeah, absolutely. And I think, it is interesting because project manager and program manager kind of get thrown around a lot, and I’ll say coming from the classroom too. The program management side of things. there was a whole lot of lingo that I had no idea what was going on. And really there was like a very steep learning curve to get acclimated to all of that.
And, even I’m in, I’m sort of recently in my current role and there’s been some, you know, acclimation there too. But essentially, going back to the question as a program manager, what the, a program manager’s role is, to. Design and then deliver a program. And that sounds very general, but program managers are in a whole lot of different industries.
Like I’ve looked at program manager jobs that are for nonprofit organizations. So maybe you would be designing a summer program for students in a certain area. so that would look like anywhere of, getting the program idea, potentially figuring out how. That program will be paid for. Like, are you soliciting, are you looking for donations or grants to pay for that program?
Is it going to be from registration fees for students? Um, and then finding the people to actually. Teach or instruct the program and then deciding, okay, are we gonna teach this program in person at a school location? If so, then maybe we have to source and talk to some schools in the area and secure.
Can we use some of their classroom space in the summer? And then actually implementing the program. So. You know, if it’s this example of a program for students in the summer, you know, you’re sitting there at the door checking students in and making sure they’re, they’re registered and that the teacher has everything that they need to instruct the program.
And then doing a follow up. So doing a survey with both the pe the students who attended and the um. Maybe the teacher, uh, maybe talking to like the school or other partners that were involved to see what their experiences were and then taking all of that data from the program and using it to inform like future program development.
I mean, that’s an example that’s. More closely related to like a traditional K 12. But in my current role and the roles that I’ve worked in outside of the classroom, it’s been designing programs for adult learners. Usually in like a specific area. So in my current role, I’m working at a small engineering school and college I should say.
And so the programs that we’re designing are for professionals who are working in fields that are related to engineering often. and in my previous, uh, role right before this, I was working for a professional cancer research organization. So we were designing programs for, like doctors, nurses, researchers, all within, kind of the cancer field.
And so it’s still that same kind of general process of. Program idea, getting all of the pieces together to make that program happen, running the program and then evaluating it, which, uh, I mean, there’s a lot of parallels to, to, to teaching quite frankly, um, and a lot of transferable skills. But, the main thing is that you’re not the one actually doing the teaching oftentimes.
Um, and you don’t have to be an expert in the content area, although it helps to. I’ve, found that it helps to have some familiarity with, uh, the content at least.
Elizabeth: And then what skills, you touched on this a bit about transferable skills, but
what you say are re required for this position,
which do you feel like you use every day from when you were a teacher?
Claire: Sure. really there, I I felt like I was doing mini program management as a teacher, just at a different pace and different cadence. But, organization and time management is huge. as a teacher you are planning multiple lessons, maybe for different grade levels. Like as a high school science teacher, I was planning biology lessons and I was planning physical science lessons and chemistry lessons.
And all of those required maybe different lab setups or different material curriculum materials that we were using. So. Coordinating all of those moving parts simultaneously and using time management to do that is something that really translates well to managing programs because it’s kind of the same thing.
You have all of these moving parts, different timelines that you’re working under to actually produce the final product, which is the program. Or like in K 12, it’s the, lesson that runs for, the length of your class. I think communication is also really important. As a teacher, you know, you’re communicating with students primarily, but, uh, teachers, administrators, your colleagues, et cetera. And, as a program manager, you’re often communicating with a lot of different, stakeholders. it might be the people who are going to be taking the program or the instructor you’re working with to teach the program or, community partners who you’re engaging to, you know, use their classroom space or et cetera, et cetera.
So ability to communicate in a timely way. Being understanding, um, you know, willing to sit down and, work with people. I think that’s inherent to what teachers do all the time, and it’s something that lends itself really well to this type of role.
Elizabeth: Such good points and almost too, like with teachers doing them second nature. It’s something to focus on in the job search because I remember, when we were hiring, looking at some candidates and just looking at different communication styles and even just spelling, the way you phrase something is so important when you’re applying.
And teachers have that skill. They do it all the time and they do it very well.
Claire: Yeah, like you said, it’s almost second nature. And so I think, sometimes teachers might take that for granted, but it’s something that’s really important and ev in the world outside of teaching, it’s not necessarily a given, that, everyone has those skillsets.
Elizabeth: And how did you know, I’m curious, how did you know you wanted to get into program management?
Claire: I did not really know. This is what I wanted to get into. Um, it’s somewhat accidental. I feel like that I got into this world and into this work. I did, like I said, my first job outside of the classroom was this quote unquote education manager position, which I was like, oh, education. That sounds similar.
it seems like a good transition and it ended up being program management. And so through my nine years at that company where I started as the education manager, I was able to. Really grow and hone in on some of those skills that a program manager uses. And then eventually ended up leading a team of folks that coordinated a bunch of programs for the group I was working with.
so there was some really good growth opportunities and I came to, you know, enjoy it and kind of find a niche that the teaching skills could fit into. I mean, even throughout my time at that company I was, kind of looking for other opportunities. And I knew that, um, like I could do program management and that there were other opportunities kind of within spaces that were kind of closer to, to the traditional K 12 world that I might wanna get back into.
And anyways, that’s how I’ve ended up now in my role as program manager, kind of because of that experience. Just looking to get back to something that was like a little bit more in the traditional education space.
Elizabeth: I think that’s such a good point. we, as teachers transitioning, might be looking for this ideal, this perfect role for the next step and
the role that you land, as a transitioning teacher might not be the one you stand forever. Yeah.
So I
think that’s great to hear about like the growth you had there and it also helped you figure out where you wanted to go in your career.
Claire: Yeah, I think so. And like you said, the place you start in is probably not the place you’re going to end in. You know, teaching is somewhat of a unique career in that many, you know, some people might stay in it and you’re in relatively the same position as a teacher for like many, many years.
But outside of teaching, it’s not uncommon to take different jobs and, kind of bounce around. And yeah, I think each position is kind of a learning experience. So, I was dropped into this role that I applied to as the education manager and l learned a ton about an entirely different field.
And then that kind of helped me continue to evaluate, what parts do I like about this? What parts would I maybe be looking for in, in new opportunities?
Elizabeth: And then tell us a little bit about, your recommendations for the job search. we would love to hear your tips kind of places maybe that we
look.
Claire: Yeah. So like I mentioned, even though I was, with this company previously for, nine years and I had the opportunity to be promoted within that time, was still also dabbling in a job search, I don’t know, at different periods more seriously than not, throughout that time.
So I feel like over that nine year period, I, you know, was having my eye on the job market and other things that might be of interest to me. And, one thing that I. Really, um, leaned into, was just trying to get connected with organizations that I found interesting. Even if it wasn’t like, oh, they have a job opening, I’m gonna look into them.
It was just things that I had an interest in, either personally or professionally. So, like one great area is maybe teaching associations that, teachers are either members of, or maybe you know of so like for me, there was the National Science Teachers Association, which I had attended some conferences and like, looked at their resources, but I just started following them more closely, like on LinkedIn and social channels and subscribed to like email lists from them just to kind of see what else was going on in the science education world.
And they actually had a job board also that I subscribed to getting like regular email alerts if jobs came up that were, kind of within my search parameters. so that’s like very teacher adjacent. But then I also started looking at some other organizations, even just in the Milwaukee area, neighborhood Association.
That’s Near Milwaukee’s, like Lakefront and Harbor that was doing, um, a lot of education and kind of community engagement initiatives. So it’s like I had gone to an event there in the, the community and I was like, oh, this is really cool. I’m going to subscribe to their newsletter and follow them on LinkedIn and just kind of see what, you know, what types of events are they putting out?
What types of educational opportunities are they, you know, are they promoting? And just getting a sense of, what types of jobs maybe were associated with that, even though I didn’t end up applying to any, or finding any through that avenue. I also looked at some local colleges and universities in the area.
I started kind of looking into that higher ed track because a lot of, some colleges and universities do have independent. Programs that are maybe more for like K 12 students or supporting teachers and things like that. And so there’s not a ton of positions like that open, but I thought it would be cool to support a program like that.
So I looked at, you know, colleges and universities. A lot of them have a email newsletter you can subscribe to also, or had job boards that could, would create like an automatic email search when your job. search categories or keywords came up. So I would get those regular emails from, these various different places and just scan through the jobs that were being posted, that were within the realm of what I was looking for.
And like I said, many of these jobs I didn’t end up applying to or I looked at and thought it wasn’t interesting or didn’t really apply to me. I think just getting, it really helped me to get a sense of just what’s out there and what are the criteria they’re looking for in their ideal candidates.
And then also what are the salary ranges of these?
places post the salary in their job description, some don’t. But, you know, maybe I looked at something, I was like, oh, this is cool, and it’s like, oh, the salary is not what I’m looking for at this time, and that’s fine. You know, that’s a really, that’s an important part of job searching that, You know, you might have to be willing to flex on that a little bit, but I think it’s important to know, uh, going into it.
Elizabeth: Thank you for sharing those resources and I think it’s important. You mentioned tapping into your local community as well and really. Looking to see what’s around you.
and then I wanted to ask you too, what your work life balance is like now with your new position. And also we spoke about burnout earlier
with and talk a little bit about that.
Claire: again, I’m, really new in my role currently as a program manager, and so, like currently the job work-life balance has been really positive. I, work from eight to four 30 approximately, and that’s it. I don’t take work home. I don’t, I’m not doing work in the evenings or on weekends.
And that seems to be pretty typical for the folks that I’m working with as well as, uh, the norm and, and the expectation. I will say that in my previous role, the company that I was at for nine years, I actually did get to the point of experiencing burnout, in a way that felt really similar to teaching.
So I think what I learned from that is that burnout is not unique to teaching and some of the things that I kind of came to realize about myself, I think if I could have told my younger self as a teacher, I think would’ve really benefited me when I was teaching as well. The previous role I was in, I was dealing with a pretty high workload. Things that were on my plate and tasks and deadlines was really high. And the level of responsibility, especially as I started to manage and supervise groups of people, that responsibility just grows. And, you know, just feeling the pressure of that and the responsibility to make sure that everything is going well and being successful.
And, as. Putting out the best product that, that I could and that my team could, so I did really get to the point of having some pretty low moments in those roles of just feeling like I could not do it all and that the challenges were insurmountable. So I really did some intentional work to get to like, why am I feeling like this?
Why am I having this response to my job? I don’t want this to be. Influencing my life in this way and, both invading my thoughts outside of work, but also just working outside of work, like working the nights and weekends just to, you know, try to get what I thought I had to get done. And I actually did use therapy as a resource throughout those times, which I would just really encourage people to look into also, and try to remove some of the stigma from it because it actually really helped me reframe how I was thinking about my career and my work. And again, if I could have transplanted some of that back to my former teacher self, I, I think I would’ve benefited quite a lot from it.
But one of the kind of key points that I took out of some of those therapy sessions and some of the things that I, I don’t know, just really resonated with me. And that I think, parallel to teaching is this idea of control. Really focusing my energy on the things that I could control, and realizing that there were many things that were outside of my control.
And they might influence the ultimate like success or outcome, but. No matter what I did, I was not going to be able to control those things. So, like, as a teacher, I remember thinking like, okay, I’m doing all of these things in my classroom. I’m using interventions. I’m, you know, working with resources to, for students, I’m differentiating my instruction.
You know, you’re, you’re doing the most to try to make sure that your students are successful. But at the end of the day, there are a whole lot of things that are going to just ultimately be out of your control and, not feeling the responsibility of, you know, if something doesn’t work out, you’re doing knowing that you’re doing what you can in that situation and you’re giving it your best effort and your all.
And there just might be other things that are influencing the outcome. and I think, like I had that realization in my previous role where I got to the point of. Really just honing in on things I could control and that I could focus on. And it gave me a, I don’t know, a much more, uh, like. A sense of ownership of what I was doing and kind of just a sense of hope.
okay, I can control these things. Maybe there’s this process over here that we’ve been doing that’s really takes a lot of time and is tedious. Maybe we don’t need to do that anymore. Maybe we couldn’t either get rid of it all together or just streamline it. And so I started asking those questions of why are we doing this process?
And some people were like, we think it’s just been around forever.
Elizabeth: Okay.
Claire: We’ve kept doing it. It’s okay, that’s not a great reason. Let’s reevaluate. Can we do this more quickly or just get rid of it? And even now with AI things, I know that’s a big buzzword, and especially in education, it’s like hard to wrap your mind around it.
Like maybe there are some things you can automate, set up my calendar for the week. Make some of those tasks easier if you can. And just even like. In my previous role, taking the liberty to do some of those things was really, kind of freeing and gave me a sense of agency of oh, okay, these are things I can control.
It’s going to help my overall work life balance. And, you know, just ended up being in a better place. And I guess I would just say that I, really was trying to be mindful of that. I recognize that I got to this point in kind of both of my career paths in teaching and in my previous career where I was like feeling this burnout and facing that and realizing that okay, any job can have stressors and challenges and every job probably will have that to some extent.
So what are my tools to work with that and like, what is my mindset around that? Because it’s. Switching careers, it’s going to come up again. Like I, I know that, um, I, yeah, I think I just did some really intentional work on that. And even for people who are still in the classroom, like I said, if I could tell myself back when I was teaching these things, I think it would’ve really benefited myself.
Elizabeth: Thank you for sharing those takeaways, especially how you coped was, it’s important to know too, like you said, it’s not just. teaching and it, can happen. So, important to, to recognize it, take the time and be able to, move forward in a way that’s going to serve you and what you can control.
So thank you for sharing that.
Claire: Yeah, absolutely.
Elizabeth: And we love to wrap these up, and I know you Shared something, just now, but what have you learned about yourself through this journey? What are some of the things that you just look back on and say, wow.
Claire: Yeah. I think a couple of things I would, and this is something I guess I’ve learned about myself, but I think could apply to. you know to A lot of situations is just to be patient. I am someone who usually like, likes to see a result right away. I’m pretty like goal driven and so, it can be hard in these processes of like looking for a new job or applying to jobs.
I don’t know. I really had to exercise a lot of patients in that because, Just getting a sense of what’s out there in the job market is it takes time and then the application process also takes time. It’s like I would apply for something and like incessantly checking my email day after day, waiting to see the response.
It’s like, okay, you may not hear back for a month or two, or maybe not at all, ever. And yeah, so I, I learned for myself just to give myself, try to give myself, like some grace and be patient with the process. I think being patient with learning a new job also now having gone through a few job transitions, there’s a learning curve at the beginning of a new job.
And I felt like a fish out of water when I first left the classroom and into a, like a corporate private sector role. everything was different. It was so quiet. It was so, I don’t know. Orderly. things took a lot of time. The pace was just really different than being in a classroom, so it just took time to get used to all of that.
And I did and I ended up being really successful in those roles. So I think. I learned that about myself, that patients can really be helpful. And I would just say for other teachers who are out there looking for other roles maybe, or maybe people who are starting new roles, just be patient because it will take time and, you you’ll get there just like when I started teaching, it was overwhelming and I got there so it takes time.
Elizabeth: Thank you so much for sharing your journey today, and I’m so excited for the teacher career coach community to listen and we can’t wait to see what’s next for you with your growth and your career. And so thank you so much today for your time
Claire: Yeah. Thanks Elizabeth. It was really great to talk with you and, yeah, happy to, connect with anyone or, or chat further if that could be of help.
RESOURCES
- If you are struggling right now, please seek help. The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is 802-273-8255
- Get the template! Writing a Teacher Resignation Letter to a Principal
- Take the FREE QUIZ: What career outside of the classroom are you qualified for?
- If you know it’s time to start your transition and are looking for resources and guidance, check out the Teacher Career Coach course today!
- Join our growing community (and connect with Daphne) on Instagram @teachercareercoach.
