In episode 180 of the Teacher Career Coach podcast, Tamara McLemore, PMP, PMI-ACP, an experienced project manager, talks about having spent over 20 years in varying industries with her project management certification, including tech, aviation, and the US government, just to name a few.
Now, as a speaker and coach, she teaches women—including several teachers—how to successfully study for and pass the PMP Certification exam through.
Join us to learn all about becoming a Project Manager!
Listen to the episode in the podcast player below, or find it on Apple Podcast or Spotify.
Find Tamara on Linkedin.
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- Explore the course that has helped thousands of teachers successfully transition out of the classroom and into new careers: The Teacher Career Coach Course
Episode Transcript:
Hi everyone, and welcome back to our next episode. Today, we get to meet Tamara McLemore. She’s an experienced project manager, having spent over 20 years in various industries with her certification, including tech, Aviation in the U. S. government, just to name a few. Now, she’s a speaker and a coach. And she teaches many individuals, including several teachers, how to successfully study for and pass the PMP certification exam through her program.
She also offers a fundamentals program for those who are just getting started. Join us today as we discuss all things related to project management. Hope you enjoy!
Elizabeth: Well, welcome back everyone today. We are very excited to have Tamra McLemore with us. Welcome Tamra.
Tamara: Thank you for having me. I’m super excited to be here today. Yes.
Elizabeth: you. And I feel like the timing is just perfect because we have quite a few educators and teachers looking to get their PMP and go into the project management space. So we’d love to learn a little bit about your background because I know initially You worked in project management.
So can tell us a little bit about your experience?
Tamara: Yes, I’ve been in project management for over 20 years. I started with telecoms, which is in self sites, and that is the technology that we’re talking on now with AT& T. And then I worked for the federal government, so I’ve done hospitals, I’ve done the park service, you name it, I’ve done it. And then I went to Delta Airlines, so I’ve done airlines.
I’ve even worked for a law firm. And so I have done project management across the sectors. And more importantly I’m not a techie. People think I’m so much in tech. I have a journalism degree and that’s a non traditional way of getting into project management. And so I am a poster child that everybody’s a project manager.
Look, especially in education and healthcare, those are the two fastest growing industries that are now requiring project managers. So I’m super excited to share all these nuggets and gems with your audience.
Elizabeth: Well, it sounds like to all of the different industries you worked in, how interesting and great for, you know, getting into these different jobs because you really can go to any industry you’d like. I
Tamara: There you go. you go. Exactly.
Elizabeth: and so now you’ve kind of pivoted towards coaching. Can you tell us a little bit about that point where you decided you were going to leave kind of the traditional nine to five project management job and kind of get into your own business?
Tamara: Well, it was accidental once
I’m just a walking accident, a good accident. It’s a good problem. But while I was at Delta Airlines as a consultant I’ve always just coached people and I was coaching friends and then I was coaching friends of friends and, and Elizabeth, I would tell the IT friends and friends of friends, okay, you guys meet me at Starbucks.
And then I would tell the non IT people, okay, you meet me in Barnes and Noble. And I was just helping them transition and interviewing. And guess what? People were getting like 20, 30, 40 percent increases. And I’m like, Whoa. And it got so where I could not handle helping another person. I was just exhausted from helping
Elizabeth: huh.
Tamara: Um, and so then you fast forward, I’m at Delta Airlines and of course I’m still doing it while I’m working there. Two other project managers, BAs, you have it. And my contract company assigned me as an on site consultant coach. Elizabeth, I was like, what is that? And then we’re like, well, we heard you were doing it and we just wanted to make an official And so I got a set amount of people.
I think I started with maybe five And I coached them monthly, but normally people met with me Maybe once sometime twice and I took them to coffee just seeing how their projects was going You know that feeling that we get that things are uneasy and we can’t put our finger on it You Like understanding what that is and then networking and understanding that feeling means something.
You want to change. You want to pivot. Maybe your project is being underfunded or defunded or there’s some changes within the organization but you don’t just sit there and become a sitting duck. You got to do something and just helping them navigate that. And Elizabeth, I loved it. I fell in love with it and so I was at Delta for three years and they wanted to Convert me to permanent and I, I like contracting and so we parted ways and I just did it full time.
And actually Delta is where I got most of my first clients and still get clients to this day. And so I, I owe them a lot, not just my working relationship, but my entrepreneur one as well.
Elizabeth: Oh, I love to hear that. And it’s so neat to hear they noticed that you were doing that already. You have this strength and then they made that position for you and you kind of were like, Oh, okay, I can do this on my own. And just for the educators out there. If we back up a little bit. Can you kind of break down what is a project manager?
What are some of the skills needed? I know you were in journalism. So, you know, you were saying educators to health care. We kind of have these inherent skills already.
Tamara: Yes.
Elizabeth: you talk a little bit about that?
Tamara: Yes, great, great point. And so a project, the definition of a project, it has the beginning and the end. And what gets people hooked up is the unique product or service. And people are like, well, I haven’t done anything unique. Well, it’s unique to me. I’ve done been doing project management for 20 years, but if I go into the education setting, there will be a learning curve versus people that are already doing it.
They could do it in their sleep, you know? And so for instance, I’ve had quite a few people in education And we use one example that I use with everyone is curriculum those other duties assigned. And so your school, your school year is an inherent, inherent schedule. It changes maybe a week or two, but for the most part, it is set in stone.
And so when you are looking at new curriculum, let’s say K 12, let’s say reading, well you go to all those vendors, you test them out, you decide on maybe 3 5, you do a prototype. Once you pick the vendor that gives you the results of kids test scores increasing, now you roll that out throughout the school system, guess what Elizabeth, that’s a project!
Elizabeth: You know, I, so I’m thinking back to my days in the classroom and I remember being on the curriculum committee at the district and I, now I’m connecting the dots. I mean, that’s so helpful. Just hearing that you already have done things.
Tamara: All right. And what people think is you have to do that all the time. But if you do that for math, science, or if you do it every year, you can use a different, It’s the same type of project, but the curriculum is what makes it unique. And so that’s what people have to understand. Let me think of another project.
I’ve had some principals want to transition. They’re already doing the budget, strategic planning, but maybe they have been removed from the classroom for a while in Individual quality and some things they need to work on, but everybody is inherently a project manager. Let’s say you’re, those other duties assigned are sports, or the arts, or organizing a PTA.
That’s a project. Like literally, that’s a project. It has a beginning and an end. You need product or service.
Elizabeth: That’s so helpful. Thank you for kind of laying it out that way. Beginning, end having a schedule and then tell us a little bit about some of these educators are learning about the PMP certification. So, Tell us what this is, and is this something that’s required with every project manager job, or what does that look like?
Tamara: So the certification, people get hung up on, I need this piece of paper. Now one of my number one strengths is a learner. So I’m always wanting to learn. And so a lot of people just want the piece of paper, but you really should think about the learning part. Like what are you getting? You’re getting, you may have.
All these skills and curriculum, schedule, budget, because, you know, school systems, we’re managing so much with a small budget. So some of those things you already understand, but maybe you need additional help on quality and risk. And what the, the certification does, it gives you a bird’s eye view into all the knowledge areas.
And so that you can manage a project more effectively and efficiently. And so the certification. It tells any industry that you can come in and execute a project from beginning to end, period. The end.
Elizabeth: Excellent. And is this exam one that’s online, in person? What’s kind of the format around it?
Tamara: So it is both it is online and in person, but I make everybody go into the center because with AI and computers and just Doing it from home. I don’t think it’s the option. It is an option they offer But I tell everybody to go into the um site and it’s 180 questions for four hours but the questions are really situational and the new PMI exam is really really really um Um, speaks to what we do every day.
So before it was a little off where you had to really try to memorize, but this new curriculum, you will know it, you will understand it. And you will say, guess what? It makes sense. So Elizabeth, I have people in my bootcamp and they started using it not after they get the certification, not at the end of the bootcamp, they started using it day two or three.
Day two or three. And that is the biggest compliment because you have people in all industries saying, Whoa, we need to slow this project down. So for instance, I have somebody in nonprofit and because she didn’t work in a traditional tech environment, she worked in nonprofit, her brain was like every day in the bootcamp and she had just gotten married.
So that’s the project in itself. Although you cannot use your wedding on a, on a application. She was so fresh, was struggling and really wanted to know how to manage more effectively. Let me give you an example of where she was at her organization. Nonprofit. That means they need their website to be able to receive donations.
Elizabeth: Mm hmm.
Tamara: Guess what? They didn’t relay that requirement to the website builder.
Elizabeth: Oh no!
Tamara: Exactly. And so she, she, they had to realize what their part in the miscommunication, just create a website. No, no, no. You have to give them requirements, make sure that they understand your mission. And so, like I said, people with the last, the least baggage, corporate IT baggage going in the PMP certification, to me, they do better and they learn quicker because they don’t have this corporate baggage.
Elizabeth: And it sounds like, as a project manager, you work with a lot of different departments, if I’m understanding correctly. You’re kind of like, overseeing different people. Departments. Mm hmm.
Tamara: yes. So all stakeholders. So if you’re in education, the principal, the superintendent, the school board itself. Oh, you cannot forget about the parents and the people. And then the children themselves, their and their families, transportation. My mom, most of my family worked in the school system.
And so just understanding now what they were working with trying to, you know, get, get ramped up for a new school year with the transportation versus the schools and the principals. Now it’s starting to really make sense to me. They were doing project management
Elizabeth: All along. Yeah.
Tamara: all alone.
Elizabeth: Oh, I love it. It’s definitely connecting the dots here. And what about your program? Can you tell us a little bit about how that coaching works and how you’re able to kind of bring someone from start to finish for the certification?
Tamara: Yes, so that application prevents a lot of people from even trying to get their certification. Well, my program, it’s a little selfish, but I help with the PMP application. And the reason why I do that is because it gives me one on one time. And I get to see what everybody is doing in their day to day. So for instance, I may get several people from the same organization, which in fact I do because I do a lot of private organizations.
Guess what? Everybody’s doing something different.
Elizabeth: Mm hmm.
Tamara: And I have to understand what Elizabeth is doing, what Tamara’s doing. That way I can help you fill out the PMP application. But the selfish reason is, I want to make sure those examples that I’m using in the bootcamp, you really get. Because I can’t talk all about curriculum.
I can’t talk all about IT. I can’t talk all about healthcare. Like, I have to mix it up. I have mix it up. And so, that’s one thing I offer. Then the bootcamp is two weeks. And guess what? We have a good time. We’re going over day to day scenarios, like what is your frustration, how, you know, understanding the scope from beginning will make you a better project manager.
Because a lot of times we’re getting a mandate from up, from the superintendent, from the principal. But guess what? If you’re in those meetings, You would understand it straight from the horse’s mouth instead of second hand information. Because Elizabeth, we can all read a report. But there’s some things that just did not make it in And sometimes you to be in the room. And so understanding having the vocabulary to say, Mr. and Mrs. Principal, I need to be in the room. And the bullets why we’re not writing a dissertation, but giving them lessons learned on if I’m not in the room, then how can I effectively implement this project.
And these are the lessons we learned before over budget, you know, behind schedule. When you can quantify that, you’re getting an invite to the meeting so you can gather requirements. So we do that in the boot camp. So, after the boot camp, it’s still me and you one on one because you still are taking mock exams, I’m helping you, um, we have a, a database where we can see what your strengths are versus your weaknesses, and I can help you sort out what you need to study.
Is it the softer skills? Is it the harder skills? And then, the cohort sticks together, so they have study groups, and the goal is to get everybody to the finish line, to get everybody to pass the certification. and become PMP certified, but more importantly to work more effectively and efficiently.
Elizabeth, we don’t want to go home and do our five to nine. You know what the five to nine is, don’t you?
Elizabeth: Opening your email at night and doing all that.
Tamara: Exactly. We want cut that shift out and the PMP certification can help. Look, I know firsthand because a little known fact is I used to work with my husband. We both worked for the federal government and he did a rotation in my department and he was like, Oh, now I get it. He’s like, you fight all day.
You’re so busy. There’s no way you can do your work work at the office because you’re at the sites. So he said, now I get it. But guess what Elizabeth? He said, but You can’t continue like this.
Elizabeth: Yeah.
Tamara: this and so I know firsthand how to get rid of that second shift and work more effectively and efficiently For your family for your friends and for more importantly for you.
so important
Elizabeth: That’s great to hear. And I thank you for sharing that over, um, kind of overview of your program. And I love to, it’s kind of, you know, it’s learning, it’s upskilling, you’re learning that vocabulary, vernacular, so you can translate what you’re currently doing so they see that.
Tamara: Absolutely Okay, so this is my opinion. Ha ha ha ha! I just don’t believe in us pivoting and taking a lesser job. I just, I just don’t believe in it. And that’s what the PMP certification helps you with. What skills do you have that are transferable that are attractive in this organization? Something that they don’t have.
Because as women, and I’m, I don’t want to assume most of your audience is women, but You know, we are, and what we tend to do is we tend to go back and then move forward. Men don’t do that. And, and women in my camp, we’re not doing that anymore. And so what I help you do is translate and quantify what you bring to the table.
So for instance, I have a client now, oh my gosh, she’s getting, she considers it her first. Project management job in a hospital setting. Guess what? She came from education, higher ed. We use those transferable projects in those skills. And then she did work for like, um, the department of children and family services.
But guess what? That translates to children’s hospital because she understands those requirements. You know, working with children, just in a different capacity. And so that’s what the PMP certification does in my program, more importantly, because I don’t want people to just try to get in the door. I just don’t believe in that.
At this age, we have enough credentials, enough qualifications where we should be kicking the door down, but thank you for asking that question, because no, we’re not doing that anymore.
Elizabeth: I love to hear that, and thank you for sharing that, because There’s, we have some teachers and principals who’ve been in the space for 20, 25 years and are looking to leave. And that’s kind of one of the hurdles. It’s like, can they find a different position where they can keep moving forward? And yes,
Tamara: Yes. And let me you an example. I’m an example of that. So everybody thinks that I applied for Delta Airlines, but I never applied. They recruited me from LinkedIn, which is my best friend. LinkedIn is my best friend. And I did. I’m not, I didn’t have imposter syndrome. I did ask the recruiter, why did you, you know, seek me out or why are you interested in me so that I could understand what I was bringing to the table.
And he told me flat out, it’s because you don’t have airline experience.
Elizabeth: interesting.
Tamara: Yes, it vary. And so that’s why I thought he was going, but I wanted to hear him say it. And he said, yeah, because most people that have been in the airline industry Started, you know, been in the industry 20, 30 years. We need some fresh eyes.
We need some people that know project management that don’t know the industry. They’re going to come in, ask those hard questions that everybody else think is business as usual. And you’re like, no, no, no. Why are we doing this? You know, why are we doing that? And it, those projects were extremely successful because I was catty chatty and ask a lot questions, but, but sometimes it’s what you don’t have that makes you attractive.
Elizabeth: Ah, that’s very interesting and I, I wish, I mean, I know lots of companies are like that but I wish more were because what a nice perspective to have, you know, rather than someone who’s been in the position for many years, might be not up to date with everything and then someone who can look, like you said, with fresh eyes.
Tamara: Absolutely. And on my very, very successful projects, we had diversity across, meaning we had some retirees we brought back because we needed some international intellectual property and just some things that you cannot find within the industry.
And then we had some current people and then some newbies to the industry. And it just made for a good diversity of, you know, different types of project managers. And you do have to ask those questions because very rarely do they say that’s why they are interested in you. So you do have to sell that throughout the interview process.
once you’re confident and you can sell what you do bring to the table, you don’t have to take a step back.
Elizabeth: And can you walk us through, I know every company is different, but is there kind of a traditional interview process where, you know, there’s maybe a project involved or what, what does that look like?
Tamara: Absolutely. So I coach everybody on the start technique. That is the situation. We know the start technique. A lot of companies are doing the reverse start technique, meaning show me the results first, but it’s the same. And what, what, when we’re interviewing for project management positions, they don’t want to see the task list.
They want to see what did you reduce? What did you increase? I increased children’s reading level. I re increased the graduation rate. We reduced, I don’t know, my mom the first day of school attendance. Whatever that that number is, that’s what people want to see as far as project management on a resume and you interviewing about.
So that’s how my clients are able to do the smooth transition and get the opportunity.
Elizabeth: That makes sense being results based, the impact you made. And. What about the skills? You talked about hard and soft skills, and we’ve kind of, you know, talked a little bit about them throughout this, but what would you say are just some very important skills needed for this?
Tamara: I’m glad you asked that question, and we did not set these questions up. I did not know you were going to ask me, but I’m so glad you did. What most people don’t know is the new PMP exam is 42 percent on people.
Elizabeth: Hmm, interesting.
Tamara: Very, because what they have surveyed all the organizations and project managers, including myself, we’re known for just being really hard and implementing projects and forgetting about the people aspect.
People are doing the job. And so it’s a good balance of the softer and the harder skills. And I was corrected recently. We’re not calling it soft skills anymore. We’re calling it power skills. So excuse
Elizabeth: Oh, okay. to know. I’m learning, too.
Tamara: I was corrected. So the power skills, stakeholder engagement and management, resource management things like that, those skills are just as important.
So whatever you want to have a wide variety. And so that’s what I would say. So whatever skills you bring to the table, It is what it is. And I believe, like I said before, I believe in strength finders. I’m always going to accentuate my strengths, my weaknesses. No offense. I know we’re talking to educators.
I’m not going to try to improve upon them. I’m not good at math. One plus one is two. And I’m going to hire somebody that’s good at math and bring them to my team.
Elizabeth: Awesome. Well, I know you mentioned a couple educators throughout this too. Any specific stories that stand out to you of maybe a teacher or principal that you’ve worked with?
Tamara: Um, Oh, so many, so many. Oh, that’s a great question. So I went to a Catholic school. I went to Catholic grade school and the Catholic university and pretty much all my teachers, because some of them I had multiple times because in a small school, you do have that. But one thing I did learn and understand at a very early age, I, even though I wasn’t the smartest one in the class, I still got a lot of accolades.
And so you don’t have to be on the honor roll all the time, but I always got those other awards. And so it’s the same thing with interviewing. I, I’m always up against highly technical people. I mean, some very smart engineers and I know they’re my competition, but guess what? I really understand what I bring to the table, that other value.
And I always accentuate that. So I would say I got that from all my teachers.
Elizabeth: Oh, awesome to hear. And I love to hearing just that part about being confident. And once you know the vocabulary, how to translate your skills, being, being able to be successful in the interview process.
Tamara: Yes, absolutely. And it’s, it’s a different language. It’s a whole different language. Just when I went to the federal government, we use the same exact acronyms and they mean something else. But what I tell people is you will learn it just like anything. You will learn it. And my best example is, We all have those stickies on our computer. Guess what? We all have them. But Elizabeth, do we need those stickies now? Not really. We can’t go in this system and do this. And so that’s how project management is going to be. At first there will be a learning curve, but after a while you’re going to get it and you won’t need those stickies anymore.
Elizabeth: I like that metaphor and, and kind of as we wrap up, I just had a couple more questions and do you have any books or podcasts or any resources that you particularly like, uh, that helps you out with your career?
Tamara: I do. So I have a coach, um, Rachel Rogers from hello seven. She’s my coach. I listened to her podcast, her books and just our community. I’m in her mastermind. So that community, but then I have so many other communities, women of project management, there’s so many communities. So whatever. You’re into, I would say that community and then go out a little bit.
And then the hobbies, you always learn something, um, plague off a little bit. And so just, just, you know, being a well rounded person. So that’s what I would say. The book that I just read was by, oh my gosh, Sheila Johnson, Through the Fire. Woo. I did the audio book and the hardback and fine weavers book, um, with uncle nearest women, entrepreneurs.
in non traditional environments. So that is my thing.
Elizabeth: Very cool. Okay. I’ll have to, I’ll, once I re listen to this, I’ll put that in the show notes and. Pick up one of those books. And, and we love to kind of wrap this up by hearing about what you’ve learned about yourself during this process, going from being a project manager to now being a coach of project managers.
What have you learned?
Tamara: I have learned never say never, you know, people say that, but I never wanted to be a coach. I never thought I would teach. I never thought I would be entrepreneur. I didn’t want any of those things. And so whatever you’re good at, it’s just going to show up and blossom. And so when I say never say never, never say never, cause you will eat your words.
Elizabeth: Well, thank you so much for sharing this with our community. And I’m, I’ve learned so much. So I’m very excited for everyone to listen, those interested in project management, and even those in different careers, because it’s just so interesting connecting, you know, your past experiences to, to how it relates.
So thank you so much.
Tamara: Thank you for having me and for your audience members. If they go to I want my PNP. com, I have a free quiz and you answer some questions and we’ve broken the questions down in layman’s terms. You can really see that, Oh, I have been doing projects. And I am a project manager. And then if you don’t think you’re ready for the PMP certification, we have a fundamentals class that helps you with the beginner terms.
We have some good documents that you can use in your day to day work. So we have some, some really good stuff and your podcast will be on there. And so we have some really, really good stuff on that website. And I want my PMP.com.
Elizabeth: Awesome. Oh, that’s great to hear about that fundamentals course too. Um, we’ll definitely put your website in the show notes and I’ll, I’ll look forward to taking the quiz too, after this, thank you so much.
Tamara: Thank you for having me.
