In episode 179 of the Teacher Career Coach podcast, Elizabeth chats with Jalonna Kearney-Rodgers, a Learning Experience Designer at a major educational publisher.
She taught math in grades 6-12 throughout her 10 years of service and when she decided to leave, the Teacher Career Coach resources and activities were her go-to for creating her new resume and learning about all the possibilities on the other side.
She discusses the flexibility and supportive culture of her new role, the collaborative nature of her work, and the growth opportunities available.
Join us to learn all about being an LXD!
Listen to the episode in the podcast player below, or find it on Apple Podcast or Spotify.
Find Jalonna on Linkedin.
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Mentioned in the episode:
- Sign up for 7 days of free access to Orchard
- Use code “TCC” to get 50% off of everything at Aspireship
- Our career path quiz at www.teachercareercoach.com/quiz
- Explore the course that has helped thousands of teachers successfully transition out of the classroom and into new careers: The Teacher Career Coach Course
Episode Transcript:
Elizabeth: Hi everyone and welcome back. Jelana Kearney Rogers taught math in grades 6 through 12 throughout her 10 years of service. And when she decided to leave, the TCC resources and activities were her go to for creating her resume and learning about all the possibilities on the other side. She now works as a learning experience designer for a major publishing company.
Join us to hear how she did it. Hope you enjoy.
Welcome back everyone. I’m so excited to have Kearney Rogers with us today. Welcome.
Jalonna: Hi, so excited to be here. I’ve been wanting to meet and talk with you for a while. I’m a huge fan of the teacher career coach podcast and excited to share, share some things with you today.
Elizabeth: Well thank you for your time and I’m kind of. I remember how you were listening to one of the podcast episodes a couple months ago and you were like, Oh, that’s my colleague. And then, you know, it was just kind of full circle. So I just thought that was so fun that you were like, Oh my gosh, I work with her.
And, and that’s just awesome. Well,
Jalonna: um, I love everything, um, about TCC and it, I’m sure we’ll talk later about how this has helped me, um, but definitely a full circle moment. Yes, I agree.
Elizabeth: I’m so happy we get to finally meet and we’d love to kick this off by hearing a little bit about your background and your experience in education.
Jalonna: Yeah. So I am a teaching vet. I taught for 10 years in the classroom. In full transparency, I became a teacher one because, I knew I could get my student loans forgiven and that was gonna be a big, I knew that was gonna be a big deal for me later down the line, but also because. Um, my entire student career from 1st grade to, yeah, to, to, and through college, I didn’t have a single black teacher. And I thought that that was such a disservice to
means so I figured, you know, you gotta, you gotta be what you can’t see. So I definitely. Rooted myself in that through my experience as not only a high school math teacher, but as a coach, um, I coach cheerleading almost every year I was teaching. So, I definitely love to just get involved in and Make the make the day for kids.
I just love kids. And I knew that my experience was not singular. Um, I was pretty much the only black child in my class for all of my years. Um, so again, it really played a part for me to, um, want to be able to be in front of kids who I knew were going to look like me, especially because the demographic around where I was growing up was rapidly changing. Um, and I always knew I was going to come back home. So I figured in the 10 years it would take me to go and do school and come back that it would be great. But I did teach in new Orleans for three years after staying and coming back home, um, Gwinnett County, Georgia, um, where I taught six, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th grade, um, which I feel like it’s so special.
And I did get to loop up with my kids. I know that’s something the elementary school teachers really like have a lot of pride in, but I looped with my kids, 6th, 7th and 8th grade. And it was the, I understand it’s the best feeling, um, to watch them grow. And then when they left for high school, I left for new Orleans, um, and then came back and continued teaching after. Getting into corporate a little bit and seeing kind of what that world was like. I wasn’t working in the city, city of Atlanta, like commuting and feeling like such a professional woman. And then, um, once the pandemic hit, uh, I was like, Oh, nobody knows what’s going to happen, you know, with school. So my job essentially laid me off in March.
No, I would say April of 2020. And after six months of, Oh no, what are we going to do? I was like, Oh yeah, that teaching degree. That I got from Clemson is still going to be useful. And so I jumped back in the classroom. Post pandemic, um, and stayed for about three years. And then my husband and I decided we wanted to start family planning.
And so I realized it was not gonna be sustainable too much longer. And then came to find my, my job now as an LXD. So I’m, I’m very excited to be in and through and done, but you know, still want to give back to kids in a way.
Elizabeth: I can’t wait to dive into your new position. Um, but before we talk about that, I love to hear those reasons. Very valid, important reasons that you mentioned. And then I was curious to, you know, you mentioned that, um, You had a stint in the corporate world and then went back in the classroom. So initially, what was that period where you were thinking I’m ready to leave the classroom?
This is kind of why and what brought you into the corporate world.
Jalonna: Yeah, so right around, this was probably 2015. I was wrapping up my master’s program at the University of Georgia and thought that I wanted to go into curriculum and instruction. Meaning I was going to be like, an instructional coach for kids and teachers. But then I got an amazing opportunity to go to New Orleans.
And so after teaching there until 2017, I was like, okay, my sister’s pregnant. I don’t want to be eight hours away for the first, like, nephew slash niece. She’s a niece, but I didn’t want to be that far away. Um, and so I decided to come home. But luckily, my job had a hub, if you will, in Atlanta, so I was able to transition very easily.
And I realized I would be able to keep my connections, which is something different from teaching. Um, I was kind of getting to the point where. I just felt like my efforts were a little bit futile. I didn’t feel like kids were, I was connecting with kids as much as I used to. And I think this is around the time of, um, the 2016 election and, and all of this is going on.
And it’s just a very different climate. People are scared. And I just didn’t feel like there was enough of a connection from me to kids to want to stay that far away from family. And. Feel like that was the only place that I could give. So when I moved to Atlanta and was able to stay with that job, um, which is actually, uh, the job in itself was I was a regional manager and in that position, I was able to connect charter schools with what we would call guest educators. So it was kind of like a substitute temporary of. Like think uber, but for teachers, um, which is kind of weird to think about. But I think people get in their bubble and think the whole, the whole education economy is public school and there’s, there’s not, there’s a whole separate side of, um, a charter network that has independent contractors and things that go into that world.
So I felt like I could. Reach a little bit more, with my skills and try to stay in the corporate world. But then again, the pandemic happened and I was like, Oh, well, good thing I have that backup, that backup degree. Um, which again, my advisor, when I was in college told me when I into college as a genetics major, um, cause I loved law and order SBU I really wanted to just like get things done. And so I went in as a genetics major thinking I was gonna, uh, be the people that, like, come up with the DNA results and all that. And, um, when I got to college and realized that it was going to take too long to reach that dream, I was like, okay, we’re going to have to do something that’s a little faster.
Um, and my advisor was like, well, you can always fall back into teaching. And even then they were like, Kind of, um, me know all these different routes that you could take with your teaching degree. And then of course, when I got in the classroom, it seemed like those routes weren’t really anymore. So, um, yeah, I definitely just, I like how things shaped up. But I, I really felt like it was time to go just based on, uh, my admins relationships and like parents. And it was, it was just a perfect storm of things leave. So, and then.
Elizabeth: Awesome. Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing all of that. And now you are a learning experience designer. Can you tell us? What that is,
Jalonna: Yeah. So it’s, it’s kind of funny because I used to tell people like, oh, I make textbooks, which is like such a broad way to say what I do, but essentially I am in charge of, or I’m on a team that is in charge of making sure the experience by the teacher and felt by the student are positive. And the way we do that is by utilizing our prior teaching experience from the classroom and those things we know help kids to learn, like having a lot of white space on the page and making sure things aren’t you know, cramped.
And so the experience again, as the student is smooth and calm, and it helps to link learning together. I do all that. But put it on a page and then, um, we have a, of course our digital solutions and our print solution. So I focus on the print side, which means eventually I’ll be able to look at a textbook, flip to a page and say, Oh my gosh, I wrote that problem.
I designed this page. This is amazing. Like I’ll be able to see it in real life. So I take it from my brain to a page which gets printed to real life. So, and there’s levels to that, but I’m, I’m an LXD one. So.
Elizabeth: that is super helpful that I love the way you described it because now in my head, I’m thinking, you know, you want the students to be able to digest the information effectively and calmly, like you said, you know, be able to, like, look at all these parts of a page and comprehend and understand. And the other part you mentioned, it seems like such a good fit for educators because it seems like they really value your past teaching experience because You know, exactly what teachers are looking for and students. Now, was there any upskilling or certifications that you had to get before you could, you know, go down this route?
Jalonna: Yeah. So I actually asked that in my interview question. I was like, Hey, am I going to need to do anything else? Am I going to need to grab like a degree or a certification? Um, because honestly, that was going to be a deal breaker for me. I had already received my master’s degree and was not interested in doing any more school. Um, so I, they told me essentially, no, there’s nothing that’s needed because it’s a lot of, um, what I would consider on the job training. Of course you need those basic skills like uh, Microsoft Office and like Google Sheets and things like that. But um, in terms of how we do the work, that’s very much learned over the course of practice and feedback with our scrum team. So I would not say that anything is needed, but all experience is helpful. And I would say Experience at any level, whether that’s not kindergarten, um, elementary all the way up through secondary. All of the teaching experience is helpful because our solution spans K through 12. so there is a place for all of the things that we’ve learned and what makes I think this. tech in particular, just a special place for teachers to kind of land and settle is that when we’re in the profession, I didn’t receive a lot of messages that told me I could be something else outside of an administrator or a principal. That was pretty much the. I mean, you could do like counseling, maybe if you go to school or you could do something else, but it was typically teacher AP principal. And so, when I came across this job and realized, like, or this career, rather, I realized like, oh, those things are helpful, but I wouldn’t have even known that this was out there because it’s not. Um, would say promoted as much. Um, and so I really liked that. I didn’t have to get anything extra and I felt. really made me feel confident and secure in reaching out. Because again, when you’re transitioning, it’s very scary because you don’t know what you don’t know. So to have somebody on the other side, say, Hey, what you’ve done is enough. What you’ve done is exactly what we’re looking for. What you’ve done is going to allow you to succeed in this brand new unknown area is very, very comforting.
Um, so I am a huge proponent of the egg tech space for that reason. Um, because I feel like it’s a good outlet for teachers because you don’t even realize all the things that we know how to do and, um, are good at and do it with grace and flawless and, um, simple and easy. And the things that we think are basic are, are very pronounced to, um, to other people. So yeah,
Elizabeth: Yeah, I think exactly that, like things that come second nature when we’re in the classroom. All of those skills outside of the classroom, like you said, are so pronounced and you kind of realize like, oh, maybe not everyone has this or like, maybe this skill is unique. And, you know, I’m proud of this, you know?
Yeah. And you work for a major textbook publishing company now. When you got this position, did you narrow it down specifically saying, you know, I want to do learning experience design. How did you kind of narrow it down? And I know you mentioned you listened to the podcast a bit, so tell us how you, you kind of decided on this path.
Jalonna: yeah. So I, when I finally, I feel like teachers who have left realize, like you get to that point where you’re like, okay, I’m This is the year. This is it for me. Um, so at the beginning of the 2023 school year, um, 2022 to 2023, that was my year. I was like, I will be done with teaching and starting the first like day of school.
I had like a 20 minute commute and I started, um, listening to TCC because one, because the podcast episodes were fairly like. commutable, right? Like they were easy to put in the car on the way and home. And so I was surrounding myself the, with the, um, aura of just changing careers. And so, um, as I was looking, definitely, um, use the printables that were free from, um, the website.
And I did the pros and cons and the whole exercise and realized parts of teaching that I loved and the parts of teaching that I just really could do without. And with that, I put those skills into LinkedIn, like just a basic search, um, you know, Organized comma, this comma, that comma. And all of these different jobs started popping up.
So I cut the filter on to remote because I wanted to work from home. I was just so done with going and commuting, even though I loved listening to TCC on my way, I was ready to just be calm and in my own space. Um, so once I cut that on. That really narrowed down, um, the fields that I saw jobs popping up into.
Because again, I wasn’t sure what field I wanted to go into. And then once I saw Ed Tech start popping up, I was like, what is, what is Ed Tech? And then ironically on LinkedIn, because you know, they watch and listen to all the things that we do on my timeline. It started popping up with these different, I guess, influencers saying to go to these virtual. like job fairs. And I was like, Oh, I’ve never even done that before. So I went to a job fair and all of the ed tech companies were listed like amplify and HMH and XML and all of these things. And I was like, wow, these are, these are brands of things that I use in my classroom. And it dawned upon me like, Oh, duh, teachers probably are making this stuff. And so, um, once I went through the job fair, I narrowed down the companies that I really liked. And then I went into what they offered, like the specific roles that they offered and found, um, like trends across each one. And then once I decided, okay, I want to use. Mainly my sense of, I don’t know if anyone has this person on their team, but on my teaching team, I was the one that was designing the pages and formatting things so that they would fit on two pages and changing quizzes and things like that.
I’m sure every team has one of those. Um, and so I want, I loved that. I like, that is my happy place. And so once I realized that that skill was necessary in what is called either user experience or learning experience I was off to the races at that point.
Elizabeth: Oh, that’s.
Jalonna: Yeah, TCC kicked it off. Um, and then I did a lot of work to, to really, because I don’t want to, I don’t really want to change careers again.
I really hope this is going to be it. I thought I was going to teach forever. And then when I got to the point where I realized I wasn’t going to do that, I now want to stay connected to kids forever. And I think this is probably going to be the space for it. So,
Elizabeth: That’s great. And I love too hearing about how you utilized LinkedIn as well because, you know, a lot of times we’ll think it’s for networking, but just hearing how you put in the skills and kind of. used it to your advantage to filter and, you know, took advantage of a job fair and just, just all the different things that are out there, you know, just, just go explore, check them out.
You never know where it might lead you.
Jalonna: Yeah,
Elizabeth: And then I had a question, um, that I, I don’t know if like what parts you’re familiar or not familiar, but we have a lot of educators also interested in instructional design. Are these two positions correlated in any way?
Jalonna: yes. So my master’s from UGA is actually in instructional design and development. Basically instructional designing and they are similar in the ways that instructional design is typically applied to things outside of education. I feel like education is very unique in the fact that you It is better if you have some kind of connection to real life experience, whereas with instructional designing, think that experience is still helpful in whatever field, but it’s more broad.
You could use instructional design in the health care field. You could use it in the construction field if you again, hop on LinkedIn and pop in instructional design and just look at the, the companies that are offered. It’s a broad range of companies. Whereas if you put in learning designer, the companies themselves typically tend to be education based. So similar but different.
Elizabeth: Okay. Thank you for breaking that down. That’s super helpful. And can you just walk us through a day in the life of what you do?
Jalonna: Yes. So, as I mentioned before, I have a remote work from home position and um, something I love and a reason I’ll never give it up if I can avoid it is the flexibility to create my own calendar. So a typical day for me, I usually get started around 9:30 and my day ends between 4:30 and 5:00 o’clock. In between those times I get to decide how much of my time goes to which tasks that are assigned to me. So for instance, right now I’m working on designing and well not designing proof reading a design of one of those pages I was talking about. And so I get to decide, okay, well in the morning I, you know, have to go to the doctor.
So, okay, I need to let my team know and then I can get back online around 10 30, 11 o’clock and then do work until work through lunch. Since I went to the doctor, let me work through lunch, 11 to 2 And then I’ll take a little snack break and then go to pick up and then come back and maybe I’ll work. 5 to 9 that night because something came up and I wasn’t able to get it done. But the hours are the same. Um, and that is something that again is different from teaching. my day is very different from day to day, but the work itself gets done in the same amount of time. So my eight hour day can be split up and placed in whatever order I prefer. Which I think is, A freedom that is lovely,
Elizabeth: Yeah.
Jalonna: lovely. And it just, um, yeah, I think that was again, a deal breaker for me. I was. Not going to leave teaching if I couldn’t find anything that was remote for that reason. So I could have that flexibility, especially because, as I mentioned, we’re family planning and I want to be able to be available for all the, all the cute things that they get to do during school.
which I wouldn’t have been able to do if I were, you know,
Elizabeth: Yeah.
Jalonna: stuck. I hate to
Elizabeth: Yeah.
Jalonna: word, but yeah,
Elizabeth: That’s, that’s helpful. You know, it’s flexible, you’re in control and that’s nice to hear too. You can kind of, you know, if you have an appointment, move your work a little bit to after dinner, get everything done in the way that you would, as long as you get your things and tasks done, which is, that is such a nice perk.
Jalonna: yeah. That level of stress is very important. I think that makes us feel like the adults that we are, right? Like not that, right. Not that we can’t handle it, but it just feels good to be empowered to do so. And encouraged, not that every ed tech company is the same, but. Again, one reason I love where I am is because my is built by teachers that understand our whole entire team is former teachers.
So when it’s like, oh, baby boy is sick. I have to go. It’s not this whole hoopla. What are we going to do? It’s just like, oh, we get it. You know, go do your thing and come back and, you know, You know, as long as the work is done, I feel like everyone’s fairly happy. So there we go.
Elizabeth: And then you mentioned when you were talking about what you do during the day that you might look at a page, proofread it. So I was curious who are some of the other people and teams that you work with within the company? Are there like graphic designers that you partner with or writers?
Jalonna: Yeah. So we have a whole slew of, um, different opportunities and, and groups. We have tons of acronyms, so I apologize. I don’t know what the acronyms mean, but I do know what
Elizabeth: Mm
Jalonna: So we have, um, a group that works specifically on images. Right now we are Trying to make sure our images are of the world, which means that we’re taking a lot of our prior our prior pictures and stock images and updating them to include more people of color, more people, um, with varying abilities, that kind of thing.
That’s an entire department that has their own. stuff. We have a team that works specifically on standards. So every year or so when the state would give us brand new standards to read and you get in with your team in the summer and you go over and you say, what does this standard actually want kids to do? There’s an entire team for that. That’s the That’s all they do is look at standards all day and figure out what matches what from our product matches that standard. Because again, standards always updating. So there’s always an opportunity for that. There’s a group who what we call pores, which means we tell them in words what we want.
Like, Hey, I want a graph that has, I came from math, of course. So I want a graph that has, you know, this type of scale and it needs to be a bar graph and needs to be purple and red and blue. And then we send it off to that team and they basically make our ideas come to life and place it on the page how we want. And then they, all of that comes back to us and we say, um, Wow. Thank you so much for making my brain appear on paper, appear on paper. Um, and then we send it on to the next group and they work on how it actually looks in terms of like binding and connecting it to the digital piece. So again, I’m working in the print side. So we send that over to the digital side and then there’s a digital team that’s like, okay, how can we take this print stuff and the way this page looks and make it similar, but online, because you won’t be actually, you know, turning pages,
Elizabeth: hmm.
Jalonna: it to seem and feel similar. So yeah, there’s a spot for everyone. There’s a spot for everyone.
Elizabeth: There really is. That’s so interesting, because even I didn’t think about that, you know, I’m thinking textbook company, but you’re right, you’ve got the online component, there’s the standards, like updating the content, the images, there’s, it’s just constantly moving, which is exciting, like,
Jalonna: it’s never a dull moment. It’s always going. And of course it mimics the school calendar. So like. When teachers feel it when you go back to school and it’s all like, Oh my gosh, syllabus and this person’s name and this person’s name. All of that is happening for us around June, July, August. And then, of course, you get into the winter months and things start slowing down a little.
It mimics the school year and like it. It feels very familiar.
Elizabeth: mm hmm. And, and you mentioned, um, earlier you were a learning experience designer one, I think. So I was going to ask you, I know you want to stay in this career. So is there opportunity for growth, like within that position? And what does that look like?
Jalonna: so I think this connects back to what we were mentioning about all these different groups. Um, within my, I would call us a group within my group. There’s certain pathways. So you would have lxd one lxd to lxd three. And then from there you get to like a fork in the road and you can choose to be a product owner. Or a people manager. And then of course, once you get on those tracks, there’s a couple more steps above that. So there’s constant growth. But again, another reason I love where I am is because they encourage us to try out new. Positions even within our team. So if I’m interested in like, you know what, I do have an instructional design degree, but maybe I want to focus a little bit more on stock images and copyrights and, you know, legalities and things like that, there’s an opportunity on the team as I am where I am now to partner with someone, see what they do, see if I like it, whatever the case is.
And then when something opens up, I’m I can transition from where I am within the same company to that other group. Um, which I think is. Again, more broad than what we were talking about with teaching, just being kind of, you know, teacher, AP principal, this is, this is so vast. You could end up wherever. Um, and again, because a lot of the things you learn are within the company and on quote on the job. It’s you’re already used to the culture. It’s just so it’s, it’s a great position to be in. If you, even if you decide this has been great, but I want something else, there’s probably a pathway to get there that doesn’t involve. Starting completely over.
Elizabeth: That’s great to hear that they value that professional development and growth and give you opportunities to, to pair up with, you know, a mentor who’s, who’s already in that position. And then, like you said, You know, there are so many different ways you could go. And then even outside of your company, there’s now multiple networks of other companies who also employ, you know, this possession.
So that is, that’s exciting just to kind of see like big picture.
Jalonna: Yeah, because I know it’s hard to again. I’m sure a lot of us got into the profession thinking this is where it’s gonna I’m gonna retire from teaching. I’m gonna put my 30 years and it’s gonna be great. And then as things have kind of ebbed and flowed, it’s like, maybe that’s not it. But when I do move, I want to be somewhere where I can expand without having to jump ship and switch roles and change everything. Um, because I think that was it. That is something that kept me in teaching for a while. It’s like I knew what to expect at least. The kids are different, of course, which of course makes the experience. But the, the role itself of teaching is pretty much the same every year. And so being able to know that you’re going to grow and do something else.
What I’m doing today is not the same thing I started off. Um, when I started at HMH, even though it’s in the same vein, it’s not exactly the same and you can see the growth over time. And so I really am appreciative of the opportunity to continue to grow and not feel as though it’s just another year of the same thing.
Elizabeth: And you touched on this earlier, but we love to always hear how your work life balance has changed, if it has.
Jalonna: Yeah, um, my work life balance has changed. I. Would consider myself a gradual release, kind of work life balance influencer. Um, no, I, um, am more relaxed now that I’m not teaching and I loved being with kids every day. I think I love not being with kids every day too. Um, but no, I’m able to, to do so many things again, because as long as I’m committed to working those eight hours, regardless of when those eight hours happen within the 24, it’s, it’s okay.
And having the The ability to shut it off. And when it’s shut off, it really is shut off. It’s not, you know, this email that’s coming in or this stress that I have to worry about this conference coming up. It’s none of that. It’s 5 o’clock. I have a reminder on my computer that says stop. And after that, That’s it.
You close it down and you move on to dinner or whatever else you have to do. Um, and I feel different. There’s, I’m not stressed in my back anymore. I have time to work out. And I’m just very, again, grateful for the ability to have work life balance. Not to say that when you’re teaching, you can’t have that, but the way that I’m able to the You know, surprises of life. The way I’m able to navigate that easier is definitely supporting the new work life balance of working and then actually living.
Elizabeth: That’s so good to hear, and we love to kind of wrap this up by hearing about what you’ve learned about yourself during this big journey from teaching to where you are now.
Jalonna: Yeah, I think that I’ve learned to be okay with not knowing, being okay with kind of going with the flow. I typically am not someone who well with like spontaneity or things not going to plan. I have an itinerary for it all. And I’ve learned to just kind of let things happen and it’s going to be fine. And that I have everything I need to succeed already. It doesn’t take more than what I have. I’m enough. I am smart, successful. It’s, it’s, it’s fine. I’m okay. Um, and it takes a while to see, it took a while for me to see myself that way as just being, I’m, I’m good. I, I’m smart. I know what I’m doing. I’m just building that confidence, which is so crazy because when you’re teaching, you’re in front of kids. So you have to be this like, you know, fountain of knowledge that just kind of knows all the things. And then when you don’t have that, or when I didn’t have that, And have to be in that space to put on that kind of performance. It’s like, Oh, actually, I’m okay with like, not being in the spotlight. I’m okay with not having everything resting on my shoulders and being able to just, Kind of offload it every day and pick it back up in the morning.
Um, and feel not guilty about doing that, feeling okay So yeah, I’ve learned a lot. I’m going to continue to grow and continue to learn. And I’m encouraging everyone who’s, who’s listening to TCC if you thinking about leaving or if that’s something that’s on your mind, You can do it.
This community is amazing. Um, so free plug if you have not signed up for the things. If you don’t have the newsletter, if you’re not on YouTube, then please go because it seems like it’s impossible and then until it’s not. So you got this and, um, good luck to everyone.
Elizabeth: Thank you so much. We’ve so enjoyed having you and I can’t wait for everyone to listen.
Jalonna: Of course. Thank you so much.
