This weeks episode features Sally Evans, a veteran teacher with 19 years of experience who transitioned to a Customer Success Development Representative role during the COVID-19 pandemic.
Sally shares her journey from teaching to her new career, detailing the realization during virtual teaching that led her to seek a better work-life balance. She discusses her strategic approach to changing careers, including upskilling, networking, and seeking assistance from career coaches.
Sally highlights the critical differences in stress levels and work-life balance between teaching and her current role, offering invaluable advice for teachers considering a similar transition.
Find Sally on Linkedin.
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Explore the course that has helped thousands of teachers successfully transition out of the classroom and into new careers: The Teacher Career Coach Course
Mentioned in the episode:
- Use code “TCC” to get 50% off of everything at Aspireship
- Our career path quiz at www.teachercareercoach.com/quiz
- Explore the course that has helped thousands of teachers successfully transition out of the classroom and into new careers: The Teacher Career Coach Course
Episode Transcript:
Elizabeth: Hi, and welcome back. Please join us today as we get to know Sally Evans. Sally was a veteran teacher with 19 years in the classroom. And it wasn’t until COVID 19 when she finally had some space and time to reflect on her work life balance and her career goals. At that time, she put into place strategic steps to make the change she wanted to get into customer success.
With upskilling, motivation, and resilience, she made the switch from teacher to customer success development representative. I’m so excited for you to listen to this episode, and I hope you enjoy!
Well, welcome everyone. Welcome back to this next episode. We are so excited to have Sally with us today. Welcome Sally.
Sally: Thank you. I’m happy to be here.
Elizabeth: Well, thank you for spending your Friday with us. We are, we would love to learn a little bit about what got you into education in the first place. And just some of your experience, you know, what grade you taught, what kind of. district environment you were in, public or private, and then how many years.
Sally: Sure. Um, so I have been in education for 19 years and I would not say it was the first thing on my mind when I was in high school. I think, like many people, I wanted to be a marine biologist and my dad was like, no, you’ll always live with me forever. And you have to find something else. And so, um, it was a process where, you know, the, you take those little tests about what your strengths are and what, um, you might be good at.
And he had me taking so many of those and it was always education, education, education. And I was like, no, I don’t think so. And I went to college and I just fell in love with biology. I love the sciences, but the life sciences, especially. And You know, I realized that maybe I did want to teach and that I would want to teach.
Biology. once I made that choice, I really never looked back. And I was in Michigan at the time. I moved to Florida to teach. And I, um, enjoyed it for a very long time. And I’ve taught all the levels. I started off in Dropout prevention. And then I ended up with AP courses, AP bio and AP environmental.
And then I switched districts after 14 years. And, um, you know, I am as surprised as some other people who know me are that I have left education. I never would have seen an exit when I was first starting out in college.
Elizabeth: I love to hear the merge between your passions or, you know, you loved biology and marine biology. So you thought about how can I still do this in, in a teaching world? That’s really neat. And then I, you know, from being in the classroom, you’re a veteran teacher and you have so much experience. It was a career for you.
Tell us a little bit about that transition or that turning point where you kind of thought about transitioning outside of. The classroom.
Sally: Uh, so it’s probably. For a lot of teachers with 2020 and the pandemic, I was sent home. And then right before the school year started, I was offered a virtual teaching position, and I don’t know that many people understand that virtual teaching is not really teaching. It is more like management of families and students and a lot of onboarding into this computer program that they’re going to use To teach themselves.
So I may be taught a couple hours a week. So that was a new experience. And I was at home the whole time. And this is when I had a pause. Like, I don’t think. I’m stressed at all. I don’t, I didn’t realize how would like toxically stressed I had been at my job and, you know, being home. Of course, I had just so much work life balance.
It was so good for my, uh, my kids. I made meals again. I forgot that I had loved cooking. And so, um, my husband loved it because I ended up making a lot of meals that were really good. And so that was kind of the first, like, aha, like something I’ve been doing is not right. When I feel this much relief and then I even worked the summer for them because so many kids during that time were like not getting on the computer and doing their work.
So I, I got to work the summer. And it was like, when you’re not toxically stressed, you don’t need the summer off. This is fine. Like it was no big deal to work through my summer. A lot of people thought that I would miss it and like, Oh, you get those two months, but I’ve started to think that that first month of those two months off is recovery.
So, I would say that I also felt like I had less to do you know, and, More time to work on stuff that I enjoyed and so I went back to school and got a certificate in data science and I loved learning myself again and I had time for it. I went to cert LaTob and I started cooking. Classes with them.
I worked in their kitchen so I could get it for free and do that. So, you know, I just kind of started exploring myself and I just changed during this time and, um, realize that I think I need to make a change in my life instead of going back to the classroom.
Elizabeth: Thank you for sharing that. And I love it’s, it’s important to hear too. You know, you. wasn’t until that moment in time, you know, during COVID where you actually had a moment to pause,
Sally: Yeah.
Elizabeth: self reflect, like who knows if, if you would have had that time to figure it out. So I’ve, that’s such an important piece right there to, to, to make sure you have that reflection time to be able to think and pause and yeah.
Sally: And I, you know, I had some other, that was kind of the first thing that happened and you know, financially it’s, it’s really hard to be in teaching and I saw too how overworked I was. I taught two AP classes, uh, AP bio and AP environmental, and I was putting in so many hours. At home, my weekends were planning and just that kind of, I never can shut off or I’ve forgotten something or I need to do this or the schedule changed.
And I was also sitting with, uh, a college student at Surlata, we were both working in the kitchen and, uh, he was telling me about his internship and he was talking about how much he was going to get paid over the summer for his internship. And it was like, An astronomical amount. And I remembered a college boyfriend also having an internship where he made so much money over the summer.
And I was like, wow, my internship wasn’t, we didn’t get to do that. It was 40 hours a week during, and I had to go to school at the same time and we didn’t get paid. And the guy was like, well, yeah, they intro indoctrinate you in the beginning from right then that you’re not going to make money. And you know, him saying that to me made me think about so much that we have to do.
That’s not paid. And. It just, it changed my mindset for when I did, I did end up having to go back for two years. So I didn’t want to, but eventually kids were going back and I had to go back and I wasn’t prepared yet to leave the classroom. But the mindset shift was there when I returned.
Elizabeth: I love to hear that because you have this mindset shift, you’re back in the classroom, but you still know the wheels are turning. And before we get into what job you do now, were there any other things that were kind of. Weighing you back, you know, from being in the classroom for 20 years, a lot of teachers in the community are thinking about retirement, um, you know, if I enter a new career, am I going to be able to keep up with these, these other new people getting into the career?
So, was there anything else that you thought about when you were switching careers that was holding you back at all?
Sally: Yeah so I would say first when I went back, there were, I’ll have to try to remember all, there were so many thoughts that I had. And they were really conflicting that first year, because you know there’s like a honeymoon phase when you first, Start a new job. And this was a new school. Um, and I had been home for a few years and not socialized that well.
So I was a little feral. The socialization was a lot of fun. But I realized when I got there, you know what? I worked so hard to get my resume, my teaching resume that I’ve had. I’ve done all of these things and I’ve taught AP classes. I’ve done AP readings and this and that. Nobody cared. when you move to a new school, you end up on the bottom again, usually, and people that are there have those positions, but I also didn’t want them anymore because of that mindset shift.
I was like, I’m going to do so much more work doing that without getting paid anymore, and my life is going to be crazy again. And I don’t know if that was always a respected position anymore at school, where they were like, you’re not going to do anymore. And I’m like, No, I’ve changed. I’m not doing that.
That’s that part of my life is done. I’m, you know, going to leave 30 minutes after the bell rings and I’m going to do everything I can to make sure I don’t have to bring anything home. And, um, you know, if they had asked me to teach that again, I wouldn’t have. I, I had to supplement my income while I was there, um, because the summer stuff was over and I was able to pick up tutoring.
I, I babysat the bathroom. I got paid pretty well for my five minute break between classes to go to the bathroom and catch kids vaping. And that was my side hustle, I guess. But other teachers would be like, I can’t believe what they have us doing to make extra money because we’re so poor. broke, we’ll go sit in the bathroom with these kids.
Like, this is really crazy. But those things dried up by second semester. And by my second year there, when I came in, I was regretting that I hadn’t worked over the summer to make sure I didn’t have to come back. So there were no more opportunities. To make extra money. The honeymoon period was over and I started to just pick up more on conversations about testing and being a biology teacher.
The EOC is now everything. And absolutely I wasn’t, but the people in charge of me did not see these kids as individuals. They were simply test scorers and they were getting their classes scheduled around. What worked best for the school grade and, you know, do we think they’ll even pass? And that was happening against the students best interests.
And there were some really tough conversations I had that fall of my last year, um, where I had to stick up and advocate for students. And I couldn’t believe, like, the things I was having to say and the things they were saying back to me, where I was like, I fundamentally disagree with how education is happening right now.
And this is not in the kid’s best interest. It’s not in the parent’s best interest. I don’t know if I would let my own kids go to school here. And that’s really the moment it was. I want to say it was like September on a parent night that I knew I couldn’t come back the next year. That my belief system was not in line with what was happening, but I still wasn’t sending out resumes yet.
I wasn’t looking this time. I made sure I didn’t have an emotional response where I’m just freaking out and trying to get out any way I can. And I spent a few months almost kind of deconstructing myself. I feel like because teaching seems almost like a calling, or maybe I’m, Been indoctrinated into thinking that, you know, and I had to work that out first.
And when you have two little kids and, you know, you’re crazy classroom and all of that, that was, that took some time. Cause you don’t always have time to think and think all of that out. But that would be where it really became clear. This is over for me and it’s time to find the new path.
Elizabeth: Thank you for sharing all of that. I think a lot of teachers will really resonate with that. it sounds also helpful to that you you had this time and you could be really thoughtful about it. Like, how can you think about next steps in a thoughtful way? Thoughtful way to, to where you can make an exit.
That’s going to work for you.
Sally: Yeah. so
Elizabeth: this spot, you were, you knew you were going to leave looking at your resume. So what next steps did you take? Because currently you’re a customer success development rep representative. And I can’t wait to dive into that and learn all about that. But how did you know that that’s the path that you wanted to go down and what. you do, what are some actionable things you did to, to make sure you were going in that direction?
Sally: I definitely had not heard of that term, um, before or customer success, which is where, you know, my goals are. I, at Christmas, that was the time I set for myself where I have to make a plan. So I need to like, get it all out on paper. What am I going to do here? And I wouldn’t say it came together then, but it started.
So I. dread writing my resume. It is not my strength selling myself, putting what I’m doing into numbers just feels so BSC to me and it takes so long. So I sent my resume out to somebody and I, you know, was going for something in data science potentially. Um, but there were a couple other things. I, I, Decided, you know what, what I did in virtual school, that was onboarding.
So I can leverage probably that onboarding specialist type thing. I didn’t really know exactly where to go with that, but he made me three resumes and, you know, they looked really good, but I started sending them out and I really didn’t get anything. There was, there was just nothing. And you see some advice sometimes that you need to train or like tailor your resume for every single job.
That you apply for. And so that’s why I had three resumes and it just, it was too much. I was on LinkedIn a lot and I don’t know how I came across Carly Agar, but somewhere in there I did. And she is a teacher. So for listeners, Carly Agar is a success coach with a lot of free information out there.
And she, I don’t think she has any background in education. I don’t know if she knows she’s an educator. But she just has so many wonderful resources that I just kind of kept my eye on her. And so for the next couple months, I would listen to her podcast. I looked at some of her free stuff. I read her articles and I was like, you know, she’s in customer success that involves onboarding.
And maybe like, I feel like I could be good at this. This almost feels like education. But I get paid so much more. And she just was very uplifting. And she had one day the story of somebody else that within 70 days of working with her, they had a customer success job. And I just was like, you know what?
I’m going to do this. If 70 days, whether you count it as business days or weekends, that puts me between May 28th and June 28th, that’s going to be my goal. And I put it in writing. I signed up for coaching, um, which was, you know, it was expensive ish, best money I’ve ever spent in my life. using her services, but also just what she taught me and all the networking I did.
I did it. Within 70 days of joining with her, I had a new job.
Elizabeth: That’s amazing.
Sally: Yeah.
Elizabeth: and like you said, you’re, you’re investing money, but you’re investing in yourself and your future. Like. In your work life balance. Um, and I loved hearing a little bit earlier, you talked about those three different resumes and how it was overwhelming. I think it is so important, like you said, to kind of focus on a path, because then once you found customer success, you really did your research and listen to podcasts, read things, because you do want to figure out. I like doing this job? This is what I’m going to be doing every day for the future. And
Sally: Yeah.
Elizabeth: I love hearing that you really were strategic in your approach to kind of figure out like, what is, where do I want to put my resources and my energy?
Sally: And you know, now that you’re saying that I forgot a very important step. I actually did get the teacher career coach course during that time too. And I was able to look at different things teachers might be good at. And they do talk, or you do talk about customer success in that course. And so that kind of helped steer me to Carly as well.
Elizabeth: I’m so happy to hear that both the teacher career coach course was supportive and Carly Agar’s program.
Sally: Yeah.
Elizabeth: That’s so good to hear. And, you be able to tell us a little bit about the interview process for the position you’re in now? What did it look like? Kind of, or just in general, the application process?
I know that the customer success world is competitive. So how did you really kind of stand out to make sure you were prepared for that?
Sally: Well, if I can just back up a little bit, A couple things that helped me to get even to that interview process was learning and I needed somebody to say, it’s okay that you don’t change your resume for every single application. In fact, you should have one that’s just so amazing. You don’t need to do that.
I also learned cover letters are almost never read. So unless they ask for it, stop doing it. And that freed up so much time, mental space, and just that like overwhelming, I don’t want to sit down and do this because I can’t write another cover letter. Um, so I had that. I had narrowed it down to customer success.
And one of the things that I, um, learned from her, And I think that this is probably advice anyone would give you is networking. Now, networking did not get me my job, but I got some of the best advice from former teachers that I would not have gotten if I didn’t network. And so I was really not getting as I sent out resumes for customer success, I was not getting anything back.
And so a few people I talked to told me, and I did stick with former teachers that were in tech, and they said, First, be ready to leave. During the school year. You cannot live and die by the school calendar. This is your life. Those kids will be okay. They also told me okay Customer success is kind of saturated right now because teachers are great at this and they’re doing it over the summer so what you might try if you know, you’re not going back to school is to try going for a different role that you can use to get into customer success.
And so that was an SDR role, which is part of my CSDR in my, my title now. And then finally, someone said you’re trying to work remote and you’re applying to a lot of remote jobs and you’re competing with the whole country and possibly even people outside of the country. If you go for a hybrid position, That’s in your town and you have knocked out so much of the competition.
And I would have to say I’d give that advice to every person I ever talked to. Um, because that also made a huge difference for me. So I, um, took that advice and I, I started going for SDR roles and that’s when I started getting picked up. Um, my resume got picked up and so I did some interviews. The interview process is tough right now.
Oh my goodness, you have recruiters that sometimes make appointments and you sit in their Zoom session and nobody comes to talk to you in their Zoom or you go through four or five rounds and then they still don’t pick you. There were definitely days that it was tough and so that’s another thing I would have to tell people is that like you have to get back up.
It’s, it’s not a fun process. You need to start early in the school year because you’re going to get Most likely knock down and you’re going to have to, you know, deal with that. Maybe cry a little and get back up two days later and keep going. And so I did, I was, I was very persistent. And then I got a couple interviews, but during my time networking, I was able to say, okay, I don’t think I want to interview for these companies because these are, I don’t think I’d be safe here.
They’re not good choices. And finally, I was on LinkedIn. It was through LinkedIn. I applied for my current position. I applied, they had a customer success role and they had a sales development representative, the SDR role. And I immediately, immediately they said no to customer success, but they picked me up for SDR.
One of the other things I would say I learned here, and if you listen to a Carly Agarpodcast, at one point she talks about this, is that these interviews are very different. So the first interview is with a recruiter and she, uh, had me schedule and I’m thinking, I can’t, I can’t do an interview at school.
This is unprofessional. I better schedule, you know, three weeks out when it’s a time after school. And I did made this mistake a couple of times. And by the time you get to the interview, they have, the position’s gone. So you have to go to your car or do it on your planning period, take the interview, take the day off, interview.
But when I talked to this particular recruiter, the SDR role was gone, but they had just invented a new role, the CSDR, which is even better. So I am basically the assistant to the customer success representatives. And that interview process, um, started just on the phone. Most of those interviews with recruiters are just on the phone.
So they’re very casual and easy to take like on the run. Then there were, there was an essay. I had to do an essay. I had to do some homework. It’s tech. So I had to work in a platform and, you know, show that I’m competent and can figure things out. And then I had three interviews with three different managers.
And I would say that they were all very fair. Like really good interviews. Everyone showed up when they were supposed to. It was a very, very positive interview experience. And I, I was, I felt like I needed one at that point.
Elizabeth: I just wanted to touch on that you mentioned that I think is important, that sometimes we don’t hear enough. Is that when. employers post a job, they’re looking to fill it fill it quickly because they have a need. And so, like you mentioned, how you were initially scheduling, you know, to maybe when you had a break in school, it’s, you know, you’ve got to do it. If possible, as soon as possible, because there’s other candidates in the pool, they’re going to interview and then they’re going to move forward. So I do, yeah, I think that’s important. And then I know it’s not possible in all situations, but kind of like we mentioned, try to make it a priority. If you can, that’s, well, I love hearing that kind of story about this job and how, you know, they didn’t need an STR at the time.
And then this new position opened up. So tell us a little bit about what you do as a customer success development representative.
Sally: Okay. So, well, the benefit to this is a sales development representative makes cold calls and it’s tough. They do make a commission. And I was a little at first, you know, like, Hmm, I know this is definitely not what I want for my business. forever, but most SDRs don’t stay in that position. With the C SDR, I’m making warm calls.
These are people who have already bought a product. They’re, they’ve been sold on it. I am simply just trying to make sure that they come and go to their onboarding sessions and find value in it and, um, answer questions for them. It’s, I mean, I have to say, I have so little stress right now that, It’s just for some people.
It might not be ideal. They might get a little bit bored right now. I’m okay, because what’s happening is I’m learning everything that I need to to become a customer success representative, um, or manager. And so, um, I am just basically just trying to make sure that They get the value out of the product that they have purchased and learning everything that they can so that they adopt the product and we keep a customer.
So it sounds, when I sometimes when I explain it to my family or um, you know, like you kind of have to give them a sales background stuff about what you’re doing and they, it’s a Chandler Bing job where they’re like, nobody knows what you do. Like, You can explain it as many times as you want. We don’t understand.
Whereas my previous job you know, everyone had at least an idea and I can tell you teaching gives you tons of stories. I have far fewer stories, but they’re nothing’s crazy. And I’m not stressed out. And they take my recommendations. I was, you know, I had to, with my counterpart, another, another, Person that was hired with me.
We had to find a way to collect data on, you know, who’s not showing up and what do we do next? And so there’s a little bit of working in that learning hub spot problem solving, and I also, they are very aware that this is something that we both want. We both want to be customer success managers.
And so we know that that’s, we’re learning in the process. For, um, a promotion that is coming and then I’ll get to train my replacement and, uh, I can tell you though, like I, one of the things that people ask me all the time is, Do I have to take a pay cut because you’re at, like, after 20 years, you’re at the top of your pay for what you’re doing and teaching.
And I did not. I did not. I am, it, this is a pretty introductory level position, and I am getting paid a little bit more, actually, with free healthcare than what it took me 19 years to work up to in education. So that alone I mean the lack of stress, the better health care, the chance to move up without being coming and administrator and taking on more stress and having less time at home it’s just been wonderful.
Elizabeth: I really appreciate you sharing that with us and being transparent because I know that is, you know, another concern when teachers are transitioning. So it is helpful to know there’s positions out there and even stepping stone positions, um, that you’re able to make it work. And it kind of leads me into my next question.
You meant you touched on it briefly, but what does growth look like for you, for this company? What in terms of learning professional learning and next steps in your career?
Sally: So I’m still, it is, it is wild to learn all the new things in tech and some of the things I’m learning, I think happened outside of education and not just tech. So this is a company that’s 14 years old and I think it’s finally not going to be called a tech startup anymore. Um, it’s a growing company.
There’s growing pains. What’s kind of fun about the job that I have right now. Is it’s changing a lot. So I’m getting more responsibility now that’s requiring me to learn more and prepare me for my CSM role. But I mean, it’s growing so quickly. So, um, a lot of new staff is being added. There’s a lot of movement.
So I, I, I know I’ll become a CSM in, probably within the next year, less than a year. But after that there are so many different teams now to work for this company. I think the average people stay at a tech company is usually three to five years. So I don’t know right now. I’m so happy. I can’t think that I’d be leaving.
I’m just starting. But I do know I can take what I’ve learned here and I have a lot of freedom to move to another tech company, to EdTech if I wanted to, customer success for. A non tech company. It doesn’t have to be SaaS. So I feel, I, I do feel like I have freedom again and I have freedom to dream.
Where there’s just so many open roles and there’s so many remote options as well or hybrid. I like one thing I, I knew I wanted before I took this job, but I didn’t think it was possible was to sell our house and go somewhere. Yeah. And, um, that feels like I can dream again and like be excited about stuff.
Um, so just feel like a little bit, like there’s possibility again, whereas before I had lost that feeling.
Elizabeth: Oh, I’m so happy to hear that. I just love hearing your story. And, and you kind of like lead into all the next questions naturally, because the next one is about work life balance.
Sally: Yeah. Oh,
Elizabeth: it throughout our conversation, but overall, what, what are the big changes from teaching to so
Sally: my gosh, it’s it’s wonderful. Um, so I get to be hybrid Monday and Friday. I work from home. I have a feeling it’s going to become Monday, Wednesday, Friday. And so that just makes the weekend so much more enjoyable for teachers. I always hear now about the Sunday scaries. That’s a thing of the past. I don’t know if other people get that outside of education anyway.
But when you get to school. Yeah. I mean, I don’t, I really don’t have to prepare for walking in, um, or I mean, I get, I get to be at home. So I get to take the kids to school. I pick them up. Um, it makes me feel a little less stressed about, uh, some of the obligations I have with the kids. I have a son with ADHD and he has group therapy and his therapy, and we keep him busy in karate.
And before coming home from such a long work day, you’re constantly overstimulated as a teacher and then having my own kids. I’m not overstimulated from other people’s children anymore or the craziness that’s happening in the school that day. Um, so I’m just a better parent. I’m a better wife without all of that stress.
it allows me to enjoy being able to take the kids to karate or this is the best thing we’re getting him to his therapy class tonight. I’m not too tired. so it really, it has helped so much. And I just don’t know if all teachers really understand how. stressed they are until you get a break and you’re like, Oh, not everybody lives this way.
And I have a lot of friends that have left the classroom and they kind of echo this, um, as well. And I, um, I’m never asked to do anything outside of what my job description is. It is, uh, in fact, sometimes I’m like, I have more brainpower here. I can help with this and this. And they’re just like, we’re good.
Just do what you do. And, uh, that that’s wild to me. Yeah.
Elizabeth: it sounds like work really is. During your working hours during the week, um,
Sally: Yeah.
Elizabeth: very different from in the classroom, you’re emailing parents at night, creating lessons, grading papers, and it’s just a kind of constant
Sally: Yeah.
Elizabeth: cycle. Well, so I’ve loved hearing your story and I can’t wait for everyone to listen.
We love to kind of wrap these up by hearing about what you learned about yourself during this time. career transition after being a veteran teacher and then entering a new career and customer success. What, what was your main takeaway?
Sally: I think my takeaway and the advice I would have to give other teachers is you’ve got to stay positive and I’m 20 years in, but let’s see, I’m 44. Um, it’s no secret. I’m okay with telling people my age. I still have a lot of working years left. So settling in or thinking I have a pension I can’t leave is not to me an option.
I had so much passion for this when I was younger and had so much energy. And I going through this process, I can still do it at this age. I had two kids at home kind of a lot going on and I had the energy to do it. I could make it happen. Now I did need my career coach because I, I, I needed, you know, Someone to help launch me because I don’t have time.
And I’d say for anyone that needs the time or that they need a career coach, the right coach. But like you gotta get back up. You, you can’t say I’m so upset with school or I don’t like my schedule. And it, you know, May 21st, I’m going to start throwing my resumes out and a lot of people give up. When by August, they haven’t heard anything and you can’t do this emotionally.
You have to be strategic. You have to plan. You have to plan for those horrible days. You have to have a support system. For when it is bad and you need to cry or rage or have wine. And, um, so I, I, I needed help. I needed the support system. I had a good support system outside of people that knew me at work so that they didn’t know what was going on.
But I had it in me to do it. I’m proved to myself that I could, and that feels great. It was definitely felt a little bit more like a war than a battle. It’s a long-term thing that you gotta kind of hunker down and find your way through it. And even if it takes two years, it will be so worth it on the other end.
Instead of, I would’ve had to be there for more than a decade more before I, I could have, been out of there and I, I would not financially be better off for it. And I might, I think I would have been really miserable. And so I, I would love to help anyone I can be positive and keep going, keep getting back up.
Elizabeth: It has been absolutely wonderful getting to know you. I’m so excited for everyone to listen and thank you so much for sharing your story, Sally.
Sally: Oh, thank you for letting me, I was really happy to do this.
