In episode 177 of the Teacher Career Coach podcast, Elizabeth chats with Lesley De Paz about her transition from teaching to consulting.
Lesley begins by reflecting on her extensive experience in education, where she spent 18 years teaching. She describes her previous environment as one of high productivity, particularly in teaching young children, which required constant engagement and adaptability.
However, she also acknowledges the need for balance in life, a theme that resonates throughout her journey. Lesley highlights a key insight from a productivity expert she follows, who emphasizes the importance of pairing productivity with moments of calm. This philosophy has influenced her approach to her consulting business, where she aims to streamline her systems while ensuring she maintains a sense of tranquility in her life.
Listen to the episode in the podcast player below, or find it on Apple Podcast or Spotify.
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Explore the course that has helped thousands of teachers successfully transition out of the classroom and into new careers: The Teacher Career Coach Course
Mentioned in the episode:
- Sign up for 7 days of free access to Orchard
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- Our career path quiz at www.teachercareercoach.com/quiz
- Explore the course that has helped thousands of teachers successfully transition out of the classroom and into new careers: The Teacher Career Coach Course
Episode Transcript:
Elizabeth: Hi, everyone, and welcome back. This week, we get to meet Leslie DePas. Leslie needed flexibility and control over her time, which teaching was not quite providing. Her job search led her to apply with a nonprofit. She did not get that role that she applied for, but did get offered a consultant position within the organization.
Now she started her own LLC consulting business and has control of her time and work life balance. Join us today to hear Leslie’s story.
Well, welcome everyone. We’re so excited to have Leslie with us today. Leslie, thanks for taking your time to join us.
Lesley: Of course! I’m so excited to be here.
Elizabeth: Well, we can’t wait to hear your teaching story and hear about what you’re working on now. And we’d love to kind of start this off by hearing about what got you into education in the first place and what were some of your teaching experiences like?
Lesley: Sure. Um, I think I was always drawn to teaching, um, and I dabbled in it a little bit in high school when we got to do some got to pick some projects that we wanted to try. And so I spent a couple, afternoons here and there with a second grade teacher and I really enjoyed it. Um, and when I went to college, that was kind of in my mind, but I wasn’t fully set on it until I ended up volunteering in a kindergarten classroom.
And I was like, this is the jam. I was like, this is amazing. I love it. And so, I had already declared a major. But I walked into the education building and I was like, Hey, how do I get a license? Um, and they were so wonderful. They, my advisor sat down with me and we mapped out the rest of my three years.
And I actually didn’t even get a degree in education. I just fulfilled the class requirements to, um, get a license, and then passed the licensure test. So my degree is actually in urban studies and public policy with a certificate in community action. So it was a little bit of a roundabout way, um, but I graduated and walked straight into a fourth grade classroom.
and supported in that position, supported some other classrooms in fourth grade and had the most amazing mentor possible. I think as a new teacher, I don’t even think he knew he was my mentor. but many of the things that I found success with in my classroom really came from watching him teach.
So that was just a really big gift. So from there I got an opportunity, an offer to teach internationally in Mexico City. So I jumped at that. Um, I was down there for two years and I was young and in my 20s and had So much fun. I loved the kids. I loved the culture. I loved the food. I loved everything. So I was lucky enough to be there for two years.
Um, then decided that I was going to actually get a degree in education. So came home to Minnesota. Got my master’s degree, had applications back out to the international world, and then met my husband, who’s now my husband and have kind of landed back, um, home. For the rest of my teaching career.
So, with a background in Spanish, I helped kind of launched the Spanish Immersion Program out in a district and taught there for seven years and then popped to a district closer to my home and taught there for eight years. All in first through fourth grade was my, um, the grades that I taught during my 18 year tenure as a teacher.
Elizabeth: Oh, thank you for sharing that. I love to hear all of the different experiences, the, the experience in Mexico, your different all the grade levels that you taught. So what, what happened, um, what was it, that turning point where you decided you were ready for something new?
Lesley: Um, well a lot happens in 18 years and I had evolved as a person, but also personally I, you know, I’d gotten married and I have three wonderful kiddos and life changes. And with that experience, also become, or kind of come some fatigue and in the end, there were three main components that contributed, um, to me deciding to, to take a leave, um, I did not resign, I chose to take a, a long term leave to kind of figure out what would be the next step and ultimately, if I just needed a break, or, or kind of what my next path was so, the first one was, My home life balance.
It was during the time when subs were impossible to find and having three kids get sick and then the next one a couple days later and then the next one a couple days later. Me and my husband taking turns being home. To me, it felt like a burden to my team and my school. And it felt like a disservice to students.
And that was really, really hard on my teacher soul. And so just finding that balance there. Um, I think when I woke up one morning or, you know, one in the morning, um, and heard a cough and thought, did I update my emergency sub plans? Um, and then there were two other pieces. There were some decisions at the district level that were continuous.
I mean, I had seen them in many settings, not just in that current district, um, that were hard for me to swallow. And then there were some decisions at the building level that were continuous. made it harder for me to be the best teacher that I could. And there’s so many limitations and so many factors that go into making schools run.
We all know that every situation is different, every district is different, every setting is different. And so it was hard for me to figure out if it was just the system or specific, um, decisions that were made. And in the end, I decided that it didn’t really matter. It’s that I had been weaving and dancing my way through these amazing 18 years of teaching and I needed a break for multiple reasons.
And I’m really glad I took a leave because that gave me so much more perspective on why I was feeling the way that I did. So, brief overview, but ultimately, I, you know, I had a really, really wonderful teaching career. It taught me more than I could have ever imagined, and in the end, it was really hard to leave.
There were, that next fall and that September, there were a lot of tears and a lot of feelings of did I do the right thing but I’ve grown more, you know, in these last couple of years than I could have ever imagined.
Elizabeth: Well, thank you for sharing those specific reasons. I think a lot of teachers will resonate with that as well. You know, with that work life home balance, you know, with the waking up in the middle of the night. Oh, did I do this for the lesson the next day? Um, you know, you’re just always, always on as a teacher. So during that time where you were taking leave, exploring new options, You interviewed for a position that you ultimately did not get, but they offered you a different position. So tell us a little bit about the job search process and how you navigated that and what that looked like.
Lesley: I had no idea what skills I had. I knew that I could teach pretty much anything to read. That was something that I had, I had done really well. And I loved getting kids to just love books. and reading. And so I kind of felt like, what, what can I do with this? I have no idea. But I love to teach and train.
And so I was like, you know what, I’m just going to throw resumes out there. And I started local thinking, you know, I might just have a better connection with people or know more about kind of the company or the org. And so I started just throwing resumes out there locally. And. And I had a couple companies, ed companies, that I loved their products as a classroom teacher, so I did apply for a couple of those positions.
Never heard back. But, you know, at that time there were a lot of teachers, um, applying. but, Um, one organization, was so lovely. And after the interview, they were so complimentary and just said, you know, we really think you have so much to offer. Um, you’re not the right fit for this position at this time.
Would you consider consulting for us? And my initial reaction was, I’m going to have to Google what is consulting. So I did. And that is quite the rabbit hole, if anyone wants to go that route of what is consulting. Um, but ultimately I was like, you know what? They know their industry, they know their organization and they know what teachers are capable of.
So, you know what? Let’s try it. I had nothing else lined up. And so I said, yes. And the program director of the organization that I worked with was possibly the most encouraging and supportive person that I have ever met. Um, and she really just encouraged me to learn and to research and to learn, um, and do it my own way.
And through that encouragement, I really found success in, in what I was doing. So what I ended up doing was providing Coaching and consulting services to other small to medium sized nonprofits. And it was very much like teaching. They, um, focused on a specific industry and there were best practice, almost like a rubric or standards.
And so I would learn about this organization, look at areas that needed support, and then look at the standards and say, Hey, this is an area that looks like really needs support. Let’s explore how we can get there. And so we would pick a channel or an avenue to kind of explore and then we would go through that.
So it was very similar to work that way. As a, as a teacher, you know, you do your, maybe, um, literacy assessments. What holes or gaps do we find in their reading? Ah, it’s phonemic awareness. Oh, it’s phonics. Oh, it’s this. Okay, so let’s look at the, you know, the best, um, practices or strategies that we can use to get them there.
This just happened to be with very competent adults, which was fabulous. And although I have to say some did not do their homework, but you know, details. And so we would walk through that process, and I had a huge plethora of resources that I could read first and learn from, and then help them walk through to better their programming.
Um, and so I was really lucky enough to, um, enjoy the work, and I love reading and learning and researching. And I loved learning about all these different organizations. It was like brain candy. And so that’s kind of how I. I got into it.
Elizabeth: And was this a nonprofit, a local one? Is that how you, okay. So I,
Lesley: Yep.
Elizabeth: Okay, I think that’s great too, you know, as, as we’re teachers are looking for new positions, it could be helpful to get out in the community, look for something local, hybrid, you know, as well as remote to really kind of get your foot in the door, especially in your community, where you already feel comfortable and confident.
Lesley: Absolutely. And I, I remember reading that somewhere in all of my, you know, transitioning kind of books. path, um, that to start local and to see, you know, what is around you, um, you have a better chance of knowing someone on LinkedIn or knowing, uh, you know, a friend of a friend who works there. I didn’t happen to know anyone at this organization, but I really liked that philosophy of, Hey, let’s use the connections that I know, or let’s go with a setting that might be more comfortable or that I’m more familiar with.
So that was the approach I took.
Elizabeth: And then, had you found the Teacher Career Coach course, uh, before that, or, or did you find it
Lesley: So my, I knew, um, about a year before I left the classroom was when I started preparing to kind of take that leap. And the first thing I did was figure out how much money we had to make. And I had never, I mean, we budgeted and knew our numbers and all of that, but I really took the opportunity to delve into personal finance because I was like, okay, now I don’t necessarily have.
10 year. I won’t have I won’t be paying into a pension. All of those questions that kind of on that job security front. as I went through that, I was like, how do I cover my bases? And so I really started looking at through personal finance. Um, and, and, uh, As I said before, I’m a reader. I’m a researcher and I love learning and I became fascinated with it.
So if anyone’s looking for a great teacher, personal finance book, the millionaire teacher was the one that I gravitated towards. And then of course I read more because I just became, um, wanting to know more and more, but that was a really huge and comforting piece to me. Would be like, okay, this is a base salary that I’m comfortable with.
And I know that within, you know, whatever, a couple of years, either my salary will go up and we can recoup that, um, or whatever it might be. And then also thinking about saving. If I don’t find a job, how long can I not have a job for us to feel comfortable with our finances? So that was just a really good exercise for me.
And it also gave me the confidence to know, Hey, I may not have the training certificate that they want for this position, but if I start, you know, a step down, I can definitely prove myself or I can work towards that or whatever it was. So I set myself up to be flexible in that, knowing that there was a possibility that finding a job that kind of fit my needs could be hard to find.
Elizabeth: That’s great to hear, and very important, I think, as well, because that is one of the things that so many teachers, especially veteran teachers, who’ve been in the classroom 15, 20, 25 years, are thinking about, you know, leaving their retirement what will it look like if I’m a consultant, and, and not W 2, so that’s, uh, Thank you for that resource.
It was the millionaire teacher.
Lesley: Yeah.
Elizabeth: Perfect. Well, I, so from there you became more confident and you learned eventually how to start your own LLC and your own business, so tell us a little bit about how that evolved going from consulting to kind of branching out on your own,
Lesley: Sure. Um, so what I found was that out of the 10 projects I did the first year for this, under this grant for this nonprofit I did eight doing the same thing. And this, what I was helping these executive directors develop was not industry specific. And so I just kept talking to people about what I was doing.
And they’re like, Oh my gosh, I know an organization that would super benefit from that. I was like, Oh, that’s really neat. That’s all say. And I was like, Oh, that’s great. And then I was like, And then people would ask, like, Oh, do you know anyone who would provide that service for them? And I was like, Oh, my gosh.
And so I started doing my research and I didn’t find many. And I was like, I would love to help organizations outside of this specific industry. Um, and so the next time that conversation came up, I was like, Hey, you know, here’s my email. Let me know when I started having that conversation. And then the more and more I talked, the more and more people were like, Oh, that’d be great.
Oh, this is needed. And it just kind of started with that. So then after a little bit, I was like, I think I need like my own business. So, um, I actually took a class called the freelancing school or freelancer school, one of those. And that helped me have the confidence to properly like set up an LLC, figure out my finances understand the things that I need, like general liability insurance.
And I’m sure I’m, oh, contracts. Um, and then the piece that I am now learning is marketing, which is a whole new realm for me. But I’m excited to learn and kind of delve in. So that’s how I Kind of moved into doing some, what I would consider side projects that have then become more of a consistent, I’m still consulting for this amazing org.
And because I love the work so much, um, but my side consulting is, is really fun as well. And a neat thing that came out of that was I eventually learned that I didn’t have enough time. So I just, with my three kids and the bus and school and this and that and other projects and everything, I didn’t have enough time.
Um, and I was like, you know what? I’ve really benefited from online courses. What if I create one? And a cool piece of that was distance learning set me up perfectly. I knew how to create slides. I knew how to screencast and record. I knew how to upload everything. And so I was like, wow, that, uh, that was some really intense professional development for my next career that I didn’t even know.
So I learned how to create my own website and put my. course on my website and it will, it is available to purchase but it has not been promoted. I’m in the marketing stage right now, but if someone went on the website, they technically could buy it. And then I had another consultant review it, give me feedback.
And so that’s kind of another progression that I used in my teaching skills. And we’ll see. if it has benefit or not. So kind of where we are.
Elizabeth: there’s so many skills that you’re sharing that are so transferable from, you know, being in the classroom and some of them, you know, we don’t even Connect or think about them because they’re just second nature. And so it’s just great and interesting to hear that, you know, you reflect back on it and think, Oh, you know, COVID helped me with that and distance learning.
And there really are so many skills. And so my next question is you’re in this nonprofit world With, with government grants. Or correct me if I’m wrong, the government, if the grants come from somewhere else, but talk a little bit about how. You navigate the nonprofit world as a consultant with the company and then on your own, or their special credentials that you need, or how does that work?
Lesley: So for the organization that I do, um, consult for that grant is a government grant, and I luckily do not have to do any of the reporting. So I am lucky enough to simply fulfill the need outlined in the grant since the organization as an umbrella received that grant. I simply just have to perform the duties of it and then stay within those specific guidelines.
There are some reporting details that I have to make sure every project complies with, but in terms of reporting or kind of securing the funding, That is not anything that I have had to take on. Um, and my consulting business on my own I haven’t had anyone come to me under a grant. And so it has just been funded by their monies, um, guess.
And so from that point, Um, part, the hardest learning curve for me was the contracts figuring out how to protect myself and then also protect my clients from anything. And then also making sure that there was clear expectations of payment and how payment works and copyright and those kind of pieces.
Here where I live, there is a student loan. date program where up and coming or small businesses can request free consulting from industry professionals. Um, and so I requested the free consulting from a lawyer and she went through my contracts and really helped me with that and also helped me figure out what insurance I needed.
So those were huge learning curves, but they were good ones. And so yeah, that’s kind of. Another side, I guess, from there.
Elizabeth: That’s great to hear. And I love that you’re using your resources and that’s such another good point about whatever community or state you’re in, look and see if you are starting a business. To see if they have that opportunity available.
Lesley: Absolutely. And I haven’t taken advantage of small business grants or women based business grants. But they’re out there. And so I, I should, I should look into it more. I have it like on my master list of things to do. But there are pieces to help, which is, is good to know. My startup costs were really minimal.
Um, so that was helpful as well. If this all goes horribly south, my investment wasn’t very much, um, except a lot of time, but I really enjoyed the time because I was learning.
Elizabeth: And then, um, I was going to ask you about if you see employees for yourself in the future, I know you’re learning about contracts and accounting and there’s so many different pieces. So in terms of growth for your business, what does that look like?
Lesley: You know, I did, uh, I follow a bunch of people. Um, and one is a woman who focuses on productivity and that to me really resonated, especially because I spent 18 years in possibly the most productive environment you could possibly think of. It is a never, you know, never ending. You know, motion of everything teaching, and especially the littles.
So, learning how to streamline systems and become productive, um, really resonated with me. But one aspect she has is that this productivity has to be countered with times of calm. And so she wants business owners to think about the systems that she creates to create more time to have calm in your life.
And that also really resonated with me. And so, when I look at all of that, my goal is to not bring in more employees or to have multiple people because I truly want to balance my time and make it as productive as possible but also have some calm in my life. What I do see is bringing on a social media, social media manager or just a virtual assistant, which is also an awesome opportunity for transitioning teachers.
Um, Oh my gosh, if you are organized and structured and really like just completing projects, definitely look into how to be a virtual assistant. I think I would thrive in that as well. Um, it didn’t go that route. So I don’t know if employee per se but support supports, I definitely see as an option, especially in those two realms.
Elizabeth: I love to hear that. And I also just appreciate hearing that. That, you know, balance between calm and productivity and really thinking about, you know, why did we leave one profession to go to the other and making sure you’re maintaining that balance?
Lesley: Absolutely. And one thing that really kind of. showed me that I needed a reset was the first September that I wasn’t teaching. I didn’t know how to function. I like was like, so what do you do? Like my kids aren’t home. So I don’t know what to do. And so I ended up having to literally make like a lesson plan of my day to be like, Oh, okay, well, let’s see, let’s first like pick up the house and then we’ll do some resumes and it was like ridiculous that I couldn’t seem to function without having like a script or like a guide of my day.
And when I go back to it, it makes sense. Everything changed every 20 minutes. You know, we were going from morning meeting to our read aloud to, you know, our literacy practice to our centers too. And so it makes sense that that’s how my mind in terms of like the fall season and everything, like, that’s how I worked.
Um, but as like a grown adult, I was shocked that that was, uh, something that I had to overcome.
Elizabeth: You kind of answered my followup question was, which was about challenges in this career and this job. So what were some of, what are some of the things that you’re still learning? And that. You’re still growing with,
Lesley: I think I have now mastered how to go about my day as a isn’t it? Without having scheduled time periods, which is a great success. But in general, in terms of consulting, you’re not a W two employee. And so you do not have a guaranteed income. And so with that comes some other pieces. One, you do need to know your baseline.
What do you need to bring in to make sure that you are financially secure? Second, where are you going to get insurance? If you don’t have a partner or someone in which you get insurance medical insurance, or you could possibly in your state have great access to insurance. To you know, private insurance or public insurance that could, that could kind of help there.
And then you do have to pay your own taxes. So quarterly taxes are something that consultants do need to pay both at the state level, depending on your state, um, and at the federal level. So that was something that was like, Oh, if I’m charging this per hour, I don’t actually get this per hour. My union dues aren’t taken out and you know, my 403B.
contribution isn’t taken out, but I do have to go in quarterly to the IRS and pay taxes. So that was something that was new. And to help me with that, I put those quarterly payments in my calendar so I don’t forget. Otherwise, you know, there can be some, some kickback there. Um, from the IRS. So I guess those are some pieces that I’m still making sure that I master is making sure that I am budgeting out and figuring all of those pieces out just for my own financial security.
And then imposter syndrome is the battle that I face regularly. Um, I haven’t been in this realm very long, even though I’ve had great success with the clients that I’ve worked with, I’ve had great success. Um, you know, with the organization that I’ve worked with, uh, there are questions that come up that I’m like, I should probably know that and I have no idea.
So definitely being able to be like, Hey, that’s a great question. Um, let me get back to you on that. And, you know, Googling my little heart out. So I think that would probably be my main, main piece is simply just understanding that I’m still new at this. I have value and I’m bringing value, um, but there’s still a lot to learn.
I
Elizabeth: that’s helpful to know about the consulting as well, because like you mentioned with finances and insurance, it is so different than if you’re a full time W 2. Employed by the government or, you know, public or private school. So that’s great to hear that and I would ask you to You’ve mentioned some great resources that you’ve used to upskill yourself are there any words of advice you would give to someone who would like to start with consulting and leave the classroom and Consult for a company.
Any words of advice?
Lesley: would not limit yourself to simply realms of education. Um, look around at things that you like. Back in 2017, I started my own non profit. And that was something that I just saw a need in my community, and it’s really small and it’s still small. But that’s something that helped me be more confident, I guess, in the nonprofit realm.
Um, but if you like books, then look for opportunities to serve in a, in a book capacity. Um, if you like to cook, um, you know, look at how you can help other people with that and, and kind of take that idea and look for opportunities, not just in education, I guess would be one of my, my biggest suggestions.
Elizabeth: That’s a great tip. And it opens up the doors and especially for, for things that you like to enjoy since you’ll be doing it every day and working on it every day.
Lesley: Absolutely.
Elizabeth: And through this, tell us a little bit about how your work life balance has shifted.
Lesley: Yeah, I have a kid who is homesick today and I okay. And I did not have to prepare lesson plans and I could take an hour out of my day to be on a podcast. so that has been the hugest difference. One of my younger kids said to me last year, Mom, have you noticed that not every morning is a disaster?
And I was like, I did. Yep. Yep. I have noticed. I’ve noticed that. And so for a seven year old to notice and say that, that made a big impact on my mama heart. Um, so that has been a huge difference for me. I’m happier. My husband’s happier, my kids are happier, and I just get to be a mom sometimes. That is not to say that there are times when I have to do in person meetings or I have to do a training or there’s something that I’m like, nope, you guys have to figure this out or I’m going to ask for help to get everyone on the bus.
Of course those things still happen, but the daily grind of it all is just different. And that has been a huge blessing.
Elizabeth: What an acute observation from a seven year old, that’s really like, that image in my mind is just like before and after, so vivid.
Lesley: It also made me reflect, like, what language have I been using? Are we disaster? Should we a disaster? How many say, oh goodness, this place is a disaster. So. You know, how that made me reflect on, huh, I wonder, wonder what mama language I’m using around my kids as well. But yes, it was definitely an eye opening, um, comment from, from a little kid.
Elizabeth: Yeah, all good vocabulary building, I’m sure.
Lesley: very true.
Elizabeth: And we love to kind of wrap these up by hearing about what you’ve learned about yourself during this big change from 18 years as a teacher to Your new career.
Lesley: So much, like so, so much. Um, I think I’m a recovering perfectionist and so that played into a lot of pieces in the classroom. I also have learned that I’m really good at seeing systems and how things can function and work, and I think that was a huge benefit for classroom management. And also in terms of Seeing how things could run on a school wide level and some of those pieces were a frustration to me and I didn’t understand why other people didn’t see those opportunities.
And so now, and every day, the work that I do is systems based and structured based, um, and looking at logical connections between the work that a nonprofit does to the outcomes that they’re trying to achieve. I’ve noticed that that is one of my greatest strengths is that I do see those connections and systems and how they can work.
And so looking back at my frustrations, um, at the school level going, Oh, not everyone thinks this way or sees it this way. They have amazing strengths in other realms that I don’t have, but it’s so much clearer to me now that that was such a huge frustration to me. Not because. They didn’t want it to be more effective or more streamlined or more system based.
It’s just, that’s not how they were thinking. So that was a huge aha to me, but it was also really recognized that, um, a strength that I had or that I have was really applicable in the classroom and then also in a more, um, out of the classroom setting. So that was really, really cool to see. So I have definitely learned, um, so many strengths.
And then also recognize things that were a deficit that I need to work on. For example, sharing, uh, what I’m doing with others. Creating a LinkedIn profile, launching my business that I literally had to call a friend to be like, okay, I’m going to push the post button. She was like, good, do it. I was like, okay, here we go.
And in two days, people had reached out on LinkedIn. Like, Hey, can we connect? And I was like, what? Um, so those pieces are areas of. that I know that I can grow in. And that was, that’s been really great. Um, the other thing that has been a huge obstacle for me is just simply hearing no, like, Oh no, thank you.
I was like, Oh I took it so personally. I was like, no, like it’s not, it has nothing to do with you. It’s the time. It’s the setting. It’s not your product. It’s not you. Um, but that was definitely, um, an area that I was, uh, I, that was new to me. I had never sold anything except knowledge to children that didn’t even know that they really wanted it.
But, they had to get math facts anyways. So I sold that every day, but on a professional level, outside of the classroom, I had never tried to sell anything or do anything like that. So that was a huge, piece, um, that I got to recognize and grow in myself. Um, so yeah, recognizing my strengths that were huge assets in the classroom and then also those transferable skills that I can now name and then also learning areas of me that I can continue to grow in.
Elizabeth: Thank you so much for sharing those reflections and for sharing your story today about consulting and your teaching journey. And I’m so excited for everyone to listen. We appreciate your time today.
Lesley: Thank you so much for having me.
